Hello
I have a question for the experts at the group
1) I have a hardware synth, a RedSound Elevata... it is a fine synth, however, this unit ( and I don't know if this is a problem with the product or just this unit) is a) very quiet - the output level is very low - and a bit noisy.
2) If I try to up the gain on my mixer or with Waves C1, I end up with the noise extremely amplified... so if I apply C1 in a noise reduction mode, it dulls up the sound too much... So I am guessing, the solution is more complicated and probably involves a configuration that I don't understand so much - I am after all a beginner on all this, specially from the production techniques perspective...
3) Any opinions and what is the best effect chain to apply to this synth to get a clear, higher level signal without the noise covering everything? I have Waves Native PowerPack, which includes L1, C1 for dynamics control...
Thnx in advance to the group for your help.
V
Hardware Synth - Quite, but noisy - what to do about it?
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- KVRian
- 1492 posts since 29 Apr, 2004
hi martell
i dont know the elevata but maybe it's not the synth producing the noise? redsound is not the highest class but this is not normal i believe.
did you
- change the cables
- try the synth at another place? very often in hobby studios its in fact the computer that is responsible for noise. i think its called ground humming and arises with computers that are not perfectly magnetically shielded. there is a solution for about 20$ if you need it.
i dont know the elevata but maybe it's not the synth producing the noise? redsound is not the highest class but this is not normal i believe.
did you
- change the cables
- try the synth at another place? very often in hobby studios its in fact the computer that is responsible for noise. i think its called ground humming and arises with computers that are not perfectly magnetically shielded. there is a solution for about 20$ if you need it.
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- KVRAF
- 3038 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY
Are you using the original power supply? I have a Redsound DarkstarXP,(which I love!). I know from my own experience as well as other's on the
Yahoo Darkstar group that this synth,(and probably your's too!), is
extremely picky about power supplies. I went through nearly a dozen
that were all within a normally acceptable range of specs before I
found one that made my Darkstar happy.
Cheers.....CL
Yahoo Darkstar group that this synth,(and probably your's too!), is
extremely picky about power supplies. I went through nearly a dozen
that were all within a normally acceptable range of specs before I
found one that made my Darkstar happy.
Cheers.....CL
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's
https://soundcloud.com/cristofe-chabot/sets/main
https://soundcloud.com/cristofe-chabot/sets/main
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- KVRAF
- 2070 posts since 5 Oct, 2005
Try using a gate with the threshold set so that the noise gets cut out but make sure your synth doesn't sound too chopped.Then you should be able raise the volume of the synth without the noise being a problem.
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- KVRer
- 25 posts since 27 Jan, 2008
I don't know the synth.. is it a constant hum or just noise when your hitting the notes?
if you bought it, and the sound used to be clean and levels were ok, could be any number of things. Like I had an amp, but the capacitors were duff after many years and 50 hz hum was present. so changing them made a big difference.
even things like dry joints on the pcb of the synth don't help, or if the output has poor sheilding, you know where it outputs the actual sound. It's in the amplifcation stage etc.
maybe get someone who knows electronics to have a look at it IF you noticed it deterated a lot since you bought it. If your unsure of it, perhaps find someone who services such things. Although the thing is with all these VST versions of moogs / arps etc.. a lot of them are going out of business as people are switching over for space and expense purposes. Some synths are notoriously un-reliable, which is a shame.
also if you remove the synth from the chain and you notice your still getting odd noise.. it could even be an earth loop.. where the power phases and generates a hum. I've come across that in 3 studios over the years, and it's more a case of tracking down the source (normally a cheap 4 way plug etc, with poor shielding)
if you bought it, and the sound used to be clean and levels were ok, could be any number of things. Like I had an amp, but the capacitors were duff after many years and 50 hz hum was present. so changing them made a big difference.
even things like dry joints on the pcb of the synth don't help, or if the output has poor sheilding, you know where it outputs the actual sound. It's in the amplifcation stage etc.
maybe get someone who knows electronics to have a look at it IF you noticed it deterated a lot since you bought it. If your unsure of it, perhaps find someone who services such things. Although the thing is with all these VST versions of moogs / arps etc.. a lot of them are going out of business as people are switching over for space and expense purposes. Some synths are notoriously un-reliable, which is a shame.
also if you remove the synth from the chain and you notice your still getting odd noise.. it could even be an earth loop.. where the power phases and generates a hum. I've come across that in 3 studios over the years, and it's more a case of tracking down the source (normally a cheap 4 way plug etc, with poor shielding)
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 45 posts since 7 Jun, 2005
Thnx for all your help
1) I will try a gate... This is the easier thing to try... I did not even occurred to me that a gate could help... I am that much of a newbie
2) Changed the cables a couple of times - I even tried monster cables!
No dice... my other hardware synth is completely silent... However the power supply suggestion looks promising - I will look into that
3) I don't think it's a ground hum, as my other syth is silent...
4) All in all, my problem is not really the noise as the fact that it gets noticeable when I up the gain so I can get the synth loud enough for recording..
5) What doest it sound like? I will post as sample as soon as I get to my setup, but just to describe it, it's not a hum - it sounds like a burst of white noise mixed in with the synth sound...
Thnx for all your help - hope the new info helps!
V
1) I will try a gate... This is the easier thing to try... I did not even occurred to me that a gate could help... I am that much of a newbie
2) Changed the cables a couple of times - I even tried monster cables!
No dice... my other hardware synth is completely silent... However the power supply suggestion looks promising - I will look into that
3) I don't think it's a ground hum, as my other syth is silent...
4) All in all, my problem is not really the noise as the fact that it gets noticeable when I up the gain so I can get the synth loud enough for recording..
5) What doest it sound like? I will post as sample as soon as I get to my setup, but just to describe it, it's not a hum - it sounds like a burst of white noise mixed in with the synth sound...
Thnx for all your help - hope the new info helps!
V
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- KVRAF
- 8749 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Just a thought, but it looks like you're putting it through a mixer and not direct into the soundcard inputs? You've checked your mixer is set at the right input impedance? Maybe I'm way off track here and not all budget mixers even give you the option, but many mixers will let you input at line or balanced level (-10 or +4 dB/whatever-the-parameter-is). Almost all synths put out at -10, but your mixer channel might be set for +4? Only a thought, but sounds like it.
Some synths are a bit noisy, but it sounds like yours is doing something naughty. PSUs tend to make more of a humming noise if the shielding etc goes kaput, so I don't think it's that, but as someone else mentioned, it might be very picky about the actual juice being sent from different PSUs.
Another possibility is positioning of the synth. Is it a desktop model? If so, is it near to the PC or next to a speaker? Quite a few bits of h/w will pick up interference/go berserk if you place them too close to anything with a big magnet in it, such as speakers, poorly shielded PSUs, monitor screens etc.
RF interference? Depending on length of cables and how they're coiled etc, you might be picking up radio frequency interference - tends not to be just white noise, but could be. Simple things like having cables straight, or at least not coiled up (coils just act like a big antenna) may help reduce the noise.
Other little things worth a try, and at no expense are to check all cabling and leads. Always good practice to have midi/audio/mains cables separated. If you have to run mains and audio cables close together, try to have them crossing each other rather than running parallel next to each other. I always run mains cables up one side of rack units and audio cables up the other side if I can (although not all units have mains on the same side, so sometimes you can't separate out altogether
). It's not a bad idea to sellotape mians cables together into looms and do the same with midi leads and audio cables to make sure they don't run directly next to each other.
And then there's the real basics, but it's easy to overlook those - I do it all the time. Have you run the synth through different mixer channels? Possibly one channel is shot and the others are OK? What type of mixer is it? I only ask because every Behringer I ever checked out had horrendous channel shielding. Turn up one adjacent channel to max and you can usually here it hissing through the next if you solo it. Shockingly poor shielding IMO. It could just be something really silly like the adjacent channel's input volume is turned up max and you haven't noticed it. Or an aux send/return is set to max (again, Every Behringer I ever tried had noisy auxes that leak everywhere throughout the mixer). Some don't notice it, but you don't notice noise sometimes until you actually hear what a well built mixer is like. Even check you haven't accidentally turned up an Eq knob on the channel (or adjacent channel). A full boost on a mid or high will accentuate whatever noise is already there - and most cheap mixers are quite noisy.
Clean contacts - probably not going to cause that constant hissing, but dirty contacts sure can affect sound. You can get spray in contact cleaner that will do a reasonable job of shifting some muck out of jack sockets (synth or mixer).
Failing all of that, it may well be that it's just buggered and needs to go to the synth doctor. You may have to take it somwhere local to get it looked at.
Some synths are a bit noisy, but it sounds like yours is doing something naughty. PSUs tend to make more of a humming noise if the shielding etc goes kaput, so I don't think it's that, but as someone else mentioned, it might be very picky about the actual juice being sent from different PSUs.
Another possibility is positioning of the synth. Is it a desktop model? If so, is it near to the PC or next to a speaker? Quite a few bits of h/w will pick up interference/go berserk if you place them too close to anything with a big magnet in it, such as speakers, poorly shielded PSUs, monitor screens etc.
RF interference? Depending on length of cables and how they're coiled etc, you might be picking up radio frequency interference - tends not to be just white noise, but could be. Simple things like having cables straight, or at least not coiled up (coils just act like a big antenna) may help reduce the noise.
Other little things worth a try, and at no expense are to check all cabling and leads. Always good practice to have midi/audio/mains cables separated. If you have to run mains and audio cables close together, try to have them crossing each other rather than running parallel next to each other. I always run mains cables up one side of rack units and audio cables up the other side if I can (although not all units have mains on the same side, so sometimes you can't separate out altogether
). It's not a bad idea to sellotape mians cables together into looms and do the same with midi leads and audio cables to make sure they don't run directly next to each other.And then there's the real basics, but it's easy to overlook those - I do it all the time. Have you run the synth through different mixer channels? Possibly one channel is shot and the others are OK? What type of mixer is it? I only ask because every Behringer I ever checked out had horrendous channel shielding. Turn up one adjacent channel to max and you can usually here it hissing through the next if you solo it. Shockingly poor shielding IMO. It could just be something really silly like the adjacent channel's input volume is turned up max and you haven't noticed it. Or an aux send/return is set to max (again, Every Behringer I ever tried had noisy auxes that leak everywhere throughout the mixer). Some don't notice it, but you don't notice noise sometimes until you actually hear what a well built mixer is like. Even check you haven't accidentally turned up an Eq knob on the channel (or adjacent channel). A full boost on a mid or high will accentuate whatever noise is already there - and most cheap mixers are quite noisy.
Clean contacts - probably not going to cause that constant hissing, but dirty contacts sure can affect sound. You can get spray in contact cleaner that will do a reasonable job of shifting some muck out of jack sockets (synth or mixer).
Failing all of that, it may well be that it's just buggered and needs to go to the synth doctor. You may have to take it somwhere local to get it looked at.
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- Banned
- 338 posts since 4 Dec, 2007
Assuming you are going unbalanced from RedSound Elevata to mixer line inputs with variable input gain.
What level are you trying to achieve in your DAW? If it's 0dbfs, then you will get noise, that's about +24dbu.
Target the 0dbu reference of your converters as your nominal input, and set the pfl of the channel strip to it's 0dbu reference as well. Also, what are you using for a mixer?
AFA Monster cables go, it's all marketing hype, and actually I find them to be very poorly made cables, definitely not worth the money they charge!!!!!!
What level are you trying to achieve in your DAW? If it's 0dbfs, then you will get noise, that's about +24dbu.
Target the 0dbu reference of your converters as your nominal input, and set the pfl of the channel strip to it's 0dbu reference as well. Also, what are you using for a mixer?
AFA Monster cables go, it's all marketing hype, and actually I find them to be very poorly made cables, definitely not worth the money they charge!!!!!!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 45 posts since 7 Jun, 2005
Helloamarule wrote:Assuming you are going unbalanced from RedSound Elevata to mixer line inputs with variable input gain.
What level are you trying to achieve in your DAW? If it's 0dbfs, then you will get noise, that's about +24dbu.
Target the 0dbu reference of your converters as your nominal input, and set the pfl of the channel strip to it's 0dbu reference as well. Also, what are you using for a mixer?
AFA Monster cables go, it's all marketing hype, and actually I find them to be very poorly made cables, definitely not worth the money they charge!!!!!!
Thnx for your help
1) Assumption is correct
2) I was shooting for around -10 dbfs measured at Cubase...
3) Using a Behringer 802A (a cheapie, but a good one)
4) Will try the suggestions
I agree on the monster cables. I was looking for better construction rather than better sound; I was hoping the monsters had better shielding. This was when I thought the problem was noise on the system. Now I realize that the problem is actually the low level of the elevata and not using the proper techniques to bring it up - the noise being a byproduct of me not having a clue.
Thnx for your help! Also, thnx to the forum too.
V