live performance of experimental electronic music...

[justin3am]

I'm looking for helpful input here... maybe a laugh or two but mostly I'm looking for guidance.

If you are arriving at this necro'd thread, the most recent updates start here: viewtopic.php?p=8941143#p8941143

Some of you may be familiar with my music (I tend to pimp it all over this damn place) but for those that aren't, I make computer based music that combines some pretty conventional techniques with some that are less conventional. If you need reference, my music can be found via the link in my signature but this post isn't really about that. I'm looking for input regarding live performance.

I was trained as a recording engineer and have very little back ground with musical instruments, what I do have is experience with sound synthesis and sequencing. Unfortunately these things (in my opinion) are pretty boring to watch. Getting to the point... my two main questions are: what are people doing to create an interesting computer music show? and how do you balance a complicated setup with a (semi)reproducible performance?

I'm using an E-MU XL-7 as my timing master and primary sequencer, I have Ableton Live and Numerology synced to it on my MBP running Battery, Reaktor and a number of software effects. The XL-7 also controls a V-Synth, MS-2000 and DSI Evolver all of which are routed via my sound card to a Kaos Pad. I use an Oxygen 61, UC-33 and a Behringer FCB-1010 as my midi controllers. What I've run into is the fact that I can make cool sounds and I have the potential for a good set but playing with all this gear does not an interesting performance make.

Information I'm looking for:

Obstacles you've run into...
How you have overcome them...
Commonly overlooked variables to consider (club/venue conditions, PA stuff, audience consideration etc)...
Ways to make a performance interesting without being cheesy...
Techniques for practicing a computer music performance...
Ways to protect gear (other than the obvious use of flight cases etc)...
Anything I might not be considering as a studio rat...


I've played a fair amount of shows in the past but I was always flying by the seat of my pants and my set was pretty boring/rigid. I want to do things differently this time. I want to be prepared and I want to put on an act that is representative of my music as a whole. At some point I want to video tape a rehearsal and get some feedback on what I'm doing well/what I could do better.

Thanks in advance!
3am

[ouroboros]

I have no answers, but I will come to your shows and applaud wildly regardless of what happens

[ckatrun411]

I've been dying to figure out how to produce live... this will be an interesting thread...
if I have any ideas Justin, I will share, but as of right now, I would love to see what people have 2 say.

[vurt]

audience consideration

:scratches head:

to make it interesting, anything from video projectors, hide behind a huge screen with the projectors and lights behind you, mutiple shadows and interesting images.
hire some dancers, dress em up a la aphex teddies/flaming lips.
explode at the end of your set, im working this one out with my pyro man

[justin3am]

A-ha! Visuals! Something I had not considered, being that I'm not a visually creative person at all. Thank you I'll definitely take that into consideration

explode at the end of your set, im working this one out with my pyro man

You know I've watched the video of Richard Devine destroying his Neko like a million times now but I'm the type that can't bring themself to destroy a peice of gear regardless of how trivial.

I will also see about the Donkey Rhubarb thing

[sloworm]

roadblocks: deciding what to prerecord and what to do on the fly.

[botkiller]

I've been playing my stuff out live for nearly 10 years now... so I have a lot o thoughts on this.

What I'll tell you is that what you will run into is that being a solo guy on stage is HARD. People are not as apt to give you a little leeway when you don't have other guys up there with you. They IMMEDIATELY figure you're a DJ, and so if you aren't dropping "dancy shit" right off the bat, they can be quite harsh, not pay attention, etc.

This is amplified if you don't sing. If you do instrumentals, they will even further not get it.

What I've done to work to combat this is employ a VJ who makes video content to my work, I have started singing, and recently, employed a friend or two to tweak on some machines up there with me, make noise, anything that gets me to step away from the laptop for a few (I still have to sequence everything, so it's not 100%, but it's something). If you can't get a VJ or want to stay solo, consider some kind of extra lighting of your own, a guy I play with out here rolls in with his own lighting rig all the time, and turns the place into a disco dance party. Great stuff. If you want to, you could get a projector and make your own visual content, or have someone make some for you. I know a great VJ, who would probably make some content for you. Point the projector at you and the stage, turn yourself into part of the visual show. I would suggest against playing behind a screen - give a little something of yourself to connect with the crowd. (just my opinion)

If you don't go the visuals route, and stick mostly to the music, remember that you worked hard on this stuff, and that you deserve to show it off. Then get up there and rock the stage. Twist the hell out of knobs, play some live keys if you can, whatever gets you jazzed while up there. Experiment. There is no perfect combo.

If you can get a controller to control some aspects of Ableton without going to the Laptop all the time, do that. It gives a good separation from you and the Laptop. Look at Underworld; they run two macs at all times, on the side of their huge mixing board, but they use the board to do everything. Their visuals, Karl Hyde's energy, and the great music do it, and they're not playing "real" instruments... they're just kicking ass, period. This means that anyone can do the same.

As to clubs and the like - always figure that the sound guy will NOT get what you're doing. "What? There's no guitar? Where's the drums? A LAPTOP?" will be your usual responses to what you do. Take it in stride, Pre-mix all you can, and be straight up with the guys about what you want sound wise. They will get to love you for your quick setup and knowing what you like.

Protecting gear; flight cases, obviously, carry something to cover your gear if it's set up and you're not playing for awhile, get a NICE laptop bag for your laptop, and carry it with you ALWAYS when you're at a gig. Get keyboard stands or tables that are reliable and strong.

On the crowd; don't be shy. Jump up and down, yell to people, offer to have kids dance on the stage with you. Play FOR them, not TO them. Give them a reason to say, "damn, that guy with a laptop f**king ROCKED it". If you sing, get them into it, if you can.

On overall performance; don't be afraid to f**k up. Make mistakes, try new things without practice. Use filters, crazy FX, anything that'll make them go, "Whoa... what was that?". Also try to give a performance that is different from your recordings. Something to make those who have heard you say, "well damn, he did this and that to that song, it was totally different, and awesome".

That's the basics of what I'd say. Network with others, get to know electro promoters and producers, and just kick ass. I love your stuff, I know you can do it. Best of luck man...

[napalmbob]

I have no real suggestions except get some mates to help you. Two heads are better than one, yadda yadda. I find it easier to bounce stupid ideas off someone else and have them share the workload.

Otherwise, getting a VJ and playing for the crowd/getting them involved seems logical. And it may distract from any f**k ups you'll encounter.

Check out Tom Cosm's vid's about using Live live (hehe) and see if his appoach works for you.

And don't forget to ROCK HARD, even if you're doing some ambient stuff, just go 112%. Hopefully you're energy would rub off onto the crowd = harder dance = more drinks = happy club owner = return appearances = small following = label signing = fame = rehab.

[vurt]

bugger, im starting at the last step.

[justin3am]

Wow, botkiller! That is a load of f**king awesome info! I was kinda' hoping that the advice provided here would be able to help others as well as myself and I think your post alone has justified starting the topic

I've gotten to the point with midi controllers (I use three) where the only time I have to touch my mouse is to start up applications and in the past I have done that before the gig, then put my laptop to sleep. Which is I guess a recommendation I would make. Also, don't gig with a desktop! No matter how slick you think your rig is (and believe me, mine was slicker than hell) you will forget either your mouse, your keyboard or something equally important.

bugger, im starting at the last step.

Rehab is for quitters, buddy. Self destruction is a way of life!

[Cabinfever]

Protecting gear: Never leave it unattended. Careful humans are the best protection.

On stage: Each song / track / episode should have a different visual focus. This might mean in one song you play percussion, or move to a different area of the stage to play a ancient synth. It could be a particular lighting effect which is only used in that track. Or maybe you could pull out a video camera and take shots of the audience to be displayed on a screen on stage. In another song maybe you have the camera tight on your hands as your tweak some knobs and the audience can *plainly* see that what you're doing eaffects the sound they hear. Maybe some audience interaction where you incorporate samples of people from a hand-held mic (plan this carefully, starting with a stoge in the audience!), even better.

The audience needs to see that you're actively doing something important. A guy at a laptop in crushingly dull. It is always dull. It can never be anything but dull. Likewise a guy tweaking some unseen knobs or dials that may or may not be really doing something. Dull. Tweaking unseen knobs while trying to dance - not dull, just laughably woeful.

[blakes]

can only advice your from the perspective of a viewer since i do no live stuff... but: do something noticeable! i love to see how sound is created and not simply played or altered with some filters... even if you only hit the base from time to time with a mpd or so its more fun to watch.
if your not into this dancehall-lotsofdelay-toasting blabla ( hopefully ) you still can use your vocals creating some sound... vocoded or granulaized or pitched or blblbl. reduce your sound from time to time... Continuous sound makes you forget about the artist but if the sound gets lower and louder and breaks up and starts again you got better chances that the crowd realises that your doing all that right now

[runagate]

Get me a job in a taco stand and I'll move there just to be your hype man.
Aren't you in SoCal? It doesn't actually have to be a taco stand, just something I'm similarly qualified for. Bouncer. Longshoreman.

Sadly, when I see someone doing this sort of thing live the only thing I want to see is over their shoulder. I'd love an additional monitor pointed out at the audience, a nice big flatscreen

[Jay Sherman]

Cover yourself in fake blood and pretend to blow up a baby.

But seriously something along these lines is my goal someday:

[xoxos]

been a long time -

have some definition of what you're about and what you wish to give the audience. depending on venue, a 'performance' might not be necessary. if it's dancing, people dance. if chilling, people chill.

one issue i've had is that due to lighting or activity you might not see/connect with the audience, so don't rely on it for the performance.

give the sound guy a stereo mix, not channels. a 'megaband' i worked with lost sound from entire members because it was so chaotic no one noticed the sound guy had a couple of channels switched off.

one thing i've heard is that lots of bass can make your mouse troublesome.