Hi, folks.
I am working on a project for Zebra2 and could certainly use some help if anyone wishes to do so. Here is my situation. The modular architecture of Zebra2 would allow me to make some pretty nice Roland D-50 emulations. Like the D-50's 4 "partials" per patch, I can use each of Zebra's 4 columns to emulate a D-50 waveform in each, effectively using a column as a "partial" (not sure sure about those sequenced loops, though hehe), even going as far as to follow the various "structures" as in the D-50.
If anyone that has a d-50 might be interested in recording some of the waveroms then sending the result to me via email or other means, it would be very much appreciated. Please PM me. Basicly, this is what I'd be looking for:
*Not so much the rythmic loops, piano, brass and string transients. I
would find the other, more abstract stuff far more useful to emulate.
*I don't need pro quality. No need to loop anything, either. Just clean, line-in recordings saved as small wav files. Record middle C, the C above and the C below. I would just like to have a good idea of the general character of the waverom sound I would be trying to mimic.
If there is no interest, that's OK. Just thought it would be a neat idea for what I'm working on.
Roland D-50 Waverom. Anyone care to donate wav samples?
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- KVRAF
- 2424 posts since 9 Mar, 2004 from Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
VST PRESETS ---> http://xenossoundworks.com
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more
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- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi Xenos
I have the waveroms.
I really can't remember where i got them, it's some time ago.
I'm at work now but i can mail them when i come home (in about 11 ours).
Regards
Ole
I have the waveroms.
I really can't remember where i got them, it's some time ago.
I'm at work now but i can mail them when i come home (in about 11 ours).
Regards
Ole
___The Jepptunes___
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
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- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
Yes, i will do that.BFunKu wrote:Could you upload them in case others might be interested?
___The Jepptunes___
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
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- KVRian
- 1204 posts since 14 Oct, 2002 from Germany
You still know that this is not allowed, the wav material on the d50 is still (c)opyright by Roland Corp.!
Frank
Frank
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twolegstoneworks twolegstoneworks https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7585 - KVRian
- 1426 posts since 12 Jun, 2003 from Denmark
Hi Frank.Xenox.AFL wrote:You still know that this is not allowed, the wav material on the d50 is still (c)opyright by Roland Corp.!
Frank
I think that Xenos intends to "copy" the waveforms using a tool that generates a waveform based on the sample for use in Zebra. Zebra doesn't read samples on it's own, and I think the copyright isn't violated then, but perhaps a Roland lawyer would view it differently
Cheers.
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- KVRian
- 1204 posts since 14 Oct, 2002 from Germany
I am working on a project for Zebra2
Yes, i still know that, metal, i just want to say with that.. I
t's really stupid to ask in a forum for sampels out of the d50 when Roland people or other companies are still around here...! When I read "I'm working on a project for Zebra2", it sounds to me he's making a comercial Soundset for Zebra and if Urs release this, he will get a lot of trouble with Roland...
Frank
Yes, i still know that, metal, i just want to say with that.. I
t's really stupid to ask in a forum for sampels out of the d50 when Roland people or other companies are still around here...! When I read "I'm working on a project for Zebra2", it sounds to me he's making a comercial Soundset for Zebra and if Urs release this, he will get a lot of trouble with Roland...
Frank
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2424 posts since 9 Mar, 2004 from Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Any recordings would be used merely as references and inspiration, then deleted. Even if I was crazy enough to actually try it, I couldn't use the actual sounds anyway as Zebra does not have any sample importing -- only pure synthesis. I just thought it would be neat to see if Zebra's synthesis capabilities would allow for a decent approximation of the D-50's general character. I would not be using any samples of the D-50 in any commercial work. Is this still overstepping my bounds? If so, then I'll have to scrap the idea.Xenox.AFL wrote:You still know that this is not allowed, the wav material on the d50 is still (c)opyright by Roland Corp.!
Frank
VST PRESETS ---> http://xenossoundworks.com
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2424 posts since 9 Mar, 2004 from Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Nope. Not even that. For two reasons: The result would not resemble anything like the original waveform. Also, I think that could still constitute unauthorized use of intellectual property.metal wrote:Hi Frank.Xenox.AFL wrote:You still know that this is not allowed, the wav material on the d50 is still (c)opyright by Roland Corp.!
Frank
I think that Xenos intends to "copy" the waveforms using a tool that generates a waveform based on the sample for use in Zebra. Zebra doesn't read samples on it's own, and I think the copyright isn't violated then, but perhaps a Roland lawyer would view it differently
Cheers.
The idea I had in mind was this: Listen to a given example of a d-50 waveform, then make a sound from scratch in Zebra that sounds similar to it by using pure synthesis -- no sampling, no "sneaky sampling" with the wavetable maker. I would be creating my own renditions of the sounds completely from scratch. They would be entirely my own creations. If I were to layer more than one example of this in a patch, I could simulate the way the d-50 uses "partials" in its architecture.
Folks, now that I have hopefully made it more clear what I was intending to do, would that still be a violation? Should I just forget that idea, just to be on the safe side?
VST PRESETS ---> http://xenossoundworks.com
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more
Bazille, NI Massive, Z3ta, PPG Wave, TAL-J8, RePro, Diva, Spire and more
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- KVRAF
- 16839 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
Have a talk with Roland's legal department, or just never ever refer to Roland D50 in your creation.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
Okay then, if anyone would like to listen to some of the raw material that makes a sound like Doland R50 i have the rave woms 
Sorry for having them Doland
Sorry for having them Doland
___The Jepptunes___
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
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- KVRAF
- 19860 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA
Xenos, I follow your logic that Zebra's flexible architecture would be perfect for emulating the D-50's LA synthesis. However I don't think you'd ever be able to get very close to the original sound without sample import. I think Wusikstation would be a perfect tool for the job but then you run into the Legal problems of sampling again.
Why not just sit down and create your own waveforms and then a patch bank based on them? Seems like it would be the same amount of work and much more rewarding creatively. Just my opinion. I've always lusted after a D-50 but it's been years since I played one. Not too sure if it would still hold the same fascination as it did in the past.
Either way good luck, Zebra's a blast to program and there are suprisingly few third party presets available especially given it's awesome sonic capabilities.
Why not just sit down and create your own waveforms and then a patch bank based on them? Seems like it would be the same amount of work and much more rewarding creatively. Just my opinion. I've always lusted after a D-50 but it's been years since I played one. Not too sure if it would still hold the same fascination as it did in the past.
Either way good luck, Zebra's a blast to program and there are suprisingly few third party presets available especially given it's awesome sonic capabilities.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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- KVRAF
- 4229 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Right here, in front of my computer...
D-50 sounds like a D-50 because of a) the sample content, b) the synthesis structure, c) the FX, d) the output convertors and e) the patch programming (Hi Eric!)
a) the sample content
Ok, so you lose the transients, the loops, the multisamples, so you are just left with the few boring regular waves. You've just lost much of the "D-50-ness" - the rest of the waves aren't that special
b) the synthesis structure
Well, the VA part of the D-50 can use a couple of basic waveforms, it has PWM and a few other things, but there's nothing particularly special about it
c) The FX - nice grainy reverb, and a Rolandey chorus/delay unit. While you won't get exactly the same character, it should be workable
d) well, not a lot you can do about the output convertors
e) the patch programming - again, this is all irrelevant without much of the core sample material
So what are you left with once you lose the recognisable PCM samples and the patch programming? Another VA synth.
I'm not sure how worthwhile the "experiment" is. The character of the D-50 really comes from all these elements. If you just recreate a few static waves in a software synthesiser, it's not going to sound D-50-like. Especially because the D-50 was sound heavily a S+S synth, and you are trying to recreate it in Zebra, which doesn't do samples.
I have started to recreate the classic D-50 Soundtrack patch in my XV-5080 (well, it's not perfect yet, just got busy with other things) and it's actually quite hard to do. Soundtrack only uses VA waves (no samples) and the 5080 does have some samples of the D-50 waves in it's ROM, but the 5080 has no PWM (it's not a VA, it's a rompler). Even so, I've got pretty close to the character of that patch, but it's still quite far away in the details...
a) the sample content
Ok, so you lose the transients, the loops, the multisamples, so you are just left with the few boring regular waves. You've just lost much of the "D-50-ness" - the rest of the waves aren't that special
b) the synthesis structure
Well, the VA part of the D-50 can use a couple of basic waveforms, it has PWM and a few other things, but there's nothing particularly special about it
c) The FX - nice grainy reverb, and a Rolandey chorus/delay unit. While you won't get exactly the same character, it should be workable
d) well, not a lot you can do about the output convertors
e) the patch programming - again, this is all irrelevant without much of the core sample material
So what are you left with once you lose the recognisable PCM samples and the patch programming? Another VA synth.
I'm not sure how worthwhile the "experiment" is. The character of the D-50 really comes from all these elements. If you just recreate a few static waves in a software synthesiser, it's not going to sound D-50-like. Especially because the D-50 was sound heavily a S+S synth, and you are trying to recreate it in Zebra, which doesn't do samples.
I have started to recreate the classic D-50 Soundtrack patch in my XV-5080 (well, it's not perfect yet, just got busy with other things) and it's actually quite hard to do. Soundtrack only uses VA waves (no samples) and the 5080 does have some samples of the D-50 waves in it's ROM, but the 5080 has no PWM (it's not a VA, it's a rompler). Even so, I've got pretty close to the character of that patch, but it's still quite far away in the details...
