KVR Audio

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:46 pm

Hi all,
let's try and start a useful thread about tone recipes here, regardless of fingers (obviously) and the exact equipment used unless it's essential for a certain sound !

Fwiw, I've got around 30 years of guitar playing practice, mostly classic 70s rock, modern country and pop. I'm not afraid of recreating most guitar tones in those genres.
There is one thing however I've always wanted to add to my arsenal - that singing melodic metal power ballad lead tone you hear on so many records.
Can't say I've nailed it yet ...

A few precise questions if you don't mind, let's assume a generic ballad @ 100 bpm, what would be your starting point :

- Delay :
--- what type would you use ?
--- synced or not, delay time(s), repeats ?
--- for those occasional faster runs, would you use ducking or just rely on tempo sync and see what happens ?

- Reverb :
--- what type would you use ?
--- would you put the delay through the reverb or keep them parallel ?

- Modulation / Harmonizers if any ?

- In the hardware realm, would you typically use a straight amp (which one ?) or amp + distotion pedal (which one ?) to get that tone ?

- I'm perfectly aware there are many roads leading to Rome, all ideas are welcome !

Thanks folks, keep the answers coming !
susiwong

PS: I won't be here all day (recording session) but I'll stop by later while taking a break.

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:59 pm

It would defo be something expensive and rackmounted by Eventide susiwong

so checkout some of there stuff and then begin chaining! i think some eventide lovers have been creaming off the sound toys plug-ins and eventide do some plug-ins also. However they have just released 3 or 4 hardware stomp pedals which are about £250 a piece so they are getting a little more affordable

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:16 pm

NEKRO.MACHINE wrote:It would defo be something expensive and rackmounted by Eventide susiwong so checkout some of there stuff and then begin chaining! i think some eventide lovers have been creaming off the sound toys plug-ins and eventide do some plug-ins also. However they have just released 3 or 4 hardware stomp pedals which are about £250 a piece so they are getting a little more affordable

That would be one of the preferred hardware options without doubt.
But I'm mainly looking for general tone recipes that can be applied to whatever hard/software you've got at your disposal.
Good harmonizing might well be Eventide only though from all I know.
The other stuff (delays, reverb, modulation) should be perfectly possible with any good equipment/software.
Cheers,
susiwong

GeckoEE · Post by **GeckoEE** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:08 pm

Could you give us one of your tone recipes for classic rock? An example of the type of thing you are looking for might help elicit some answers.

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:40 pm

good idea GeckoEE and susiwong i shall warm up a chain tonight and post (freeware of course

) for a blistering 80's power balled by some shit such as whitesnake as i think that is along the lines of what your after
I dont like whitesnake et al but some tones were not bad so i shall see what i can do mate

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:55 pm

I almost always like to go straight into a guitar amp that's got an effects loop. Stereo effects loop if you can find one, but those are pretty rare. Sometimes I'll use a compressor before the amp, but more often than not I don't find I need it. My guitar gets a lot of sustain and good overdrive will give you compression of it's own.

Set your preamp's controls so that you're probably driving the gain at 70 to 80%. . Lose most of the bass tone and bring your mids most of the way up and your high frequencies at their mid level. Of course these numbers mean nothing really you'll just have to experiment.

Maybe add a little chorus, but be careful, it'll take some of your sustain away.

Then a synced delay with ducking is very important. I really stress the fact that your delay needs to be post preamp in an effects loop or put on after the amp using a piece of good studio hardware. Putting delay before an amp always sounds a bit muddy to me and will thwart your attempt to get that clear singing tone. I use a Lexicon MPX-1 but in software there are tons of choices.

Maybe a hint of reverb, but I'll often leave this out.

These days I do all of my "amps and pedals" with either a Vox Tonelab SE or some flavor of Amplitube. Amplitube Metal is going to have a ton of presets that are probably exactly what your after. Tweak to taste. There's a plug in called Metal Amp room that looks really promising based on the audio demos, but I've never tried it. I really disliked Guitar Rig 3, GTR3 and Revalver III but some love them. There's a lot of good free stuff out there too. I like FreeAmp3 and it's pretty light on your CPU.

Also, most important is that after you play the last note at the end of a phrase, it helps a lot if you sweep your hand all the way up in about a 1:00 position and close your eyes attempting to look like you're really savoring that note, and over all else, do not stop believing.

Mark

susiwong wrote:Hi all,
let's try and start a useful thread about tone recipes here, regardless of fingers (obviously) and the exact equipment used unless it's essential for a certain sound !

Fwiw, I've got around 30 years of guitar playing practice, mostly classic 70s rock, modern country and pop. I'm not afraid of recreating most guitar tones in those genres.
There is one thing however I've always wanted to add to my arsenal - that singing melodic metal power ballad lead tone you hear on so many records.
Can't say I've nailed it yet ...

A few precise questions if you don't mind, let's assume a generic ballad @ 100 bpm, what would be your starting point :

- Delay :
--- what type would you use ?
--- synced or not, delay time(s), repeats ?
--- for those occasional faster runs, would you use ducking or just rely on tempo sync and see what happens ?

- Reverb :
--- what type would you use ?
--- would you put the delay through the reverb or keep them parallel ?

- Modulation / Harmonizers if any ?

- In the hardware realm, would you typically use a straight amp (which one ?) or amp + distotion pedal (which one ?) to get that tone ?

- I'm perfectly aware there are many roads leading to Rome, all ideas are welcome !

Thanks folks, keep the answers coming !
susiwong

PS: I won't be here all day (recording session) but I'll stop by later while taking a break.

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:21 pm

Softube's Metal Amp Room is not really going to get the eighties PW sound as its based solely on Jensen Bjorler (of At The Gates & The Haunted_ Guitar Amp setup(s) which is straight & up tuned for Melodic Death/Modern Thrash Metal Based Drive, so its ssswwweeeettt if you want to nail the gothenberg sound or jam along to Blinded By Fear but other than that its limited (I love the MAR and its on my to buy list and i also am very familiar with both mentioned bands so im not chatting shit, it may get you the amp sound but for effects forget it!)

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:45 pm

Treat yourself Susiwong this blondie is all over the 80's and probably lives on sunset strip

blackboyrockinit · Post by **blackboyrockinit** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:08 pm

nice sweep picking in that vid. I like how he says "enough talking lets hear it." I wish more reviewers on the internet(specially kvr) would say this.

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:26 pm

Thanks alot guys for your input, exactly the kind of communication I was hoping for !
You asked how I go about my classic rock tones, here's my goto recording chain:
Humbucker guitar (typically Les Paul with Pearly Gates or Schecter CET US with Superrock IIs) > treble booster (slight boost, only for solos) > Marshall JMP-1 tube pre > Hush 2000 > soundcard, that's it mostly, if I need delay (mono or pingpong, 350 to 450 ms, ~ 2 or 3 repeats, not loud) or reverb (UAD Plate 140) I add it at the mixing stage.
I tend to use the controls on the guitar a good bit, like most of the big players apparently do.
Of course there are all kinds of variations (singlecoil guitars, other preamps, FX) but that's my mainstay, getting me in the ballpark of Free, Bad Company, Warren Haynes, Billy Gibbons, Gary Moore etc (sadly not necessarily their genius

).
zerocrossing. I hear you on delay muddying the distorted tone, I much prefer adding it afterwards. During recording I use a bit of reverb (MPX-1, too) and delay (RSP-550) from the board (for the feel-good factor), but it doesn't get recorded.
I think I can get the basic tone for those melodic metal leads allright, substituting a Rat (conservative boost settings) or something for the treble boost.
I'm mainly eager to learn about the finer points of FX for that style...
Keep the good ideas coming,
Cheers,
susiwong

blackboyrockinit · Post by **blackboyrockinit** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:35 pm

dear susiwong.

I have a friend who works over at a very prestigious studio in Los angeles that has all kinds of great musicians come in to play, including many or all of the ones you've mentioned.

This engineer takes pictures of each guitarists' setup (including EXACT knob positions) and will sell them to you for a fee, along with the artists' permission.

From this friend I was able to obtain a lot of valuble settings.

there are other techs and roadies and what have you out there on craigslist and otherwise that you can buy pics of settings from.

Just an inside tip.

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:50 pm

NEKRO.MACHINE wrote:Treat yourself Susiwong this blondie is all over the 80's and probably lives on sunset strip

That guy sure nails that style, fine player !

Good examples for the tones I'm chasing would be:
2:36 to 2:46
3:30 to 3:42 in that clip
Also the clean part starting @ 4:08 does sound nice.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily gravitating towards that style myself, but I want to add those ballad tones to my repertoire, quite useful from time to time. You're never too old to learn.

Cheers,
susiwong

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:56 pm

blackboyrockinit wrote:dear susiwong.

I have a friend who works over at a very prestigious studio in Los angeles that has all kinds of great musicians come in to play, including many or all of the ones you've mentioned.

This engineer takes pictures of each guitarists' setup (including EXACT knob positions) and will sell them to you for a fee, along with the artists' permission.

From this friend I was able to obtain a lot of valuble settings.

there are other techs and roadies and what have you out there on craigslist and otherwise that you can buy pics of settings from.

Just an inside tip.

Thanks blackboyrockinit, didn't know that, interesting, nice info !
I'll look into that for sure.
But for now I'm mainly interested in getting into the general ballpark.

As the indians say:

Invite a man to your fire and you'll keep him warm all night.
But set that man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life !

Cheers,
susiwong

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:00 pm

NEKRO.MACHINE wrote:good idea GeckoEE and susiwong i shall warm up a chain tonight and post (freeware of course ) for a blistering 80's power balled by some shit such as whitesnake as i think that is along the lines of what your after
I dont like whitesnake et al but some tones were not bad so i shall see what i can do mate

NEKRO.MACHINE, thanks, looking forward to your suggestions !
Cheers,
susiwong

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:07 pm

as far as i can see susi all that you could really add is some modulation and pitch/harmonizing plug-in (TAL Chorus 60 is sswweeettt for free and dont sound too OTT chorus heavy if you no what i mean) and then swap out your TB peddle for a an overdrive instead of the Procco Ratt distortion.

My setup is Jackson SL3 with a single EMG 85 at the bridge (i dont like ceramics!) and a floyd and my other two are an ESP Standard Series Horizon NT-II stock and another Jackson with a set of Bare Knuckle Warpig Humbuckers in.
I use a boss NS-2 with either off the following overdrive pedals in the NS-2's loop: Ibanez TS808, Ibanez TS9, Maxon OD9 Or Boss SD-1 and then into either a Marshall DSL 50 or TSL 100 and i also have a Vox AD100 ValveTronix Head and use the JCM 800 modelled Pre/Power-amp on that and thats it. Sometimes a morley power wah or for some uber doom i use a Dunlop Hendrix Octave Fuzz (think Electric Wizard 'Dopethrone'-era) and i just got a little guyatone Slow grow micro stomp box for fade in type wierd sounds (not had time to piss around with it yet) also im tuned way down with like a .68 or .70 as my lowest string gauge and the 3rd must always be wound in my book!

So try that free chorus and find a pitch/harmonizer vst and grab an SD-1 by boss as they are £35 and will sound alot smoother than the ratt.

your 97.5% of the way to what your after already for sure

\m/ ^ ^ \m/ as f**k!

Edit: some more free decent modulation:

Warmer Phaser & Free Bundle are good stuff

http://www.nomadfactory.com/products/di ... index.html

Metal lead guitar FX thread (geeky)