KVR Audio

s4w2th · Post by **s4w2th** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:11 am

zrtysret

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:15 am

VST is an open format.
TDM is closed format.
That's about it.

Bazillion plugs for the open format, limited plug for the closed format.
Ahh... and you will pay double for each plug, even for the same identical one.

Xenakios · Post by **Xenakios** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:16 am

TDM is Digidesign's system for DSP based routing/processing of signals on their DSP cards. "TDM plugin" means it's a (Pro Tools) plugin that runs on said Digidesign hardware cards. You'll only get TDM plugin processing on the Pro Tools HD systems, I believe prices for basic systems start from around $10000

Opulent Audio · Post by **Opulent Audio** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:21 am

s4w2th wrote:it's relevent a la a purchase

whatcha buyin?

i love your signature, btw

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:49 am

TDM runs on Digi's Motorolla based dsp cards. The biggest difference is that PTHD systems are based on 48bit integer math as oppossed to the floating point precision of most other daws.

You can find a lot of information here, though it was written by Digi engineers and approved by their marketing team for public consumption...
http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/d ... _26688.pdf

I don't think that there is any really quality difference between TDM and RTAS/VST/AU plugins and as far as I know all TDM plugins can be run in RTAS or HTDM mode (natively) if you run out of DSP power. In PTHD you can assign how much of your DSP is dedicated to the mixer/bussing system depending on how many Accel cards you have. There are some TDM only plugins of astounding quality, ReVibe and the Eventide Anthology for instance.

I'm of the mind that no person needs an HD system. The quality of native plugins is such that comparable mixes can be achieved on any platform. For some applications, though, it is really helpful to have the DSP. If I want to run McDSP's Channel G on every track during a mix, my 8 core MacPro starts getting bogged down after 16 channels. an HD3 system has the power to run like 3 times that without touching the CPU. Also the quality of audio interfaces designed to work with HD systems are stellar.

It's really f**king expensive... look at the price of the Waves Mercury bundle Native, now look at the same bundle for TDM. That price gap is pretty much the same across the board.

s4w2th · Post by **s4w2th** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:55 am

Opulent Audio wrote:
s4w2th wrote:it's relevent a la a purchase
whatcha buyin?

URS FullTec Program EQ.

I figured it might be time to pony up for a few plugs that'll properly tame the distortion spewing out of my box for last year and a half.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:58 am

Just be aware - ProTools LE doesn't support TDM plugins. You need to real deal.

-Kim.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:59 am

s4w2th wrote:
Opulent Audio wrote:
s4w2th wrote:it's relevent a la a purchase
whatcha buyin?

URS FullTec Program EQ.

I figured it might be time to pony up for a few plugs that'll properly tame the distortion spewing out of my box for last year and a half.

I wouldn't splurge on an HD rig just for a plugin that's available in Native formats fwiw.

I plan on purchasing and HD rig but that is a matter of my own productivity and I have had a ton of experience with both native and TDM platforms. Even though I have established that an HD rig would help me earn more money for what is currently a part time job, I still have doubts. There is so much more fun stuff I could buy for that money.

s4w2th · Post by **s4w2th** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:24 am

justin3am wrote:There is so much more fun stuff I could buy for that money.

Like a car plus a vacation in in hawaii, or a vacation in Hawaii AND Japan. Tough choice...both will conceivable increase your creativity.

Nah, the plug comes in both flavors. Lately I've been experimenting the the idea that minimum oportunity creates maximum creativity. Been gravitating to my old box that I started on 9 years ago. Forces me to limit my track count.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:04 pm

Kim (esoundz) wrote:Just be aware - ProTools LE doesn't support TDM plugins. You need to real deal.

-Kim.

ProTools LE and M-Powered use RTAS plugins. They can be seen as some sort of native plugins but still work ProTools based only.

Simple to understand would be this:
TDM - ProTools HD bound, DSP accellerated
RTAS - ProTools, native plugins, use the PC/MAC CPU for processing power
VST - "native" Virtual Studio Technology plugins, can be used in ProTools with a Wrapper (FXPansion VSTtoRTAS), mostly Windows, sometimes Mac also
AU - "native" Audio Unit plugins - native Macintosh plugin format. To me not known if it's possible to use in ProTools or not.

If you don't have 20grand to get a ProTools HD system (DSP card, outboard rack, all extra), but have to stick to other solutions for ProTools, then hands off of the M-Powered series and go for a M-Box at least. If you have FireWire, invest on the M-Box Pro.

Pity on ProTools, they only allow hardware for recording that is certified for their host. Which doesn't give you much alternatives, not even the hardware you might already have.

If you're an engineering student, you get ProTools fairly cheap - no castrations in the program either.

Nonplus · Post by **Nonplus** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:12 pm

Pro Tool HD3 rig, German car, Russian wife ...what will bring me more joy?

They'll all be on the curb in a couple years. The BMW is the only one that'll still make me happy.

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:56 pm

Justin3am - are there audio quality advantages to HD systems - like summing on the Protools dedicated Cards? Im wondering what the advantages are other than the DSP and a few non native plugins....

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:13 pm

SWAN808 wrote:Justin3am - are there audio quality advantages to HD systems - like summing on the Protools dedicated Cards? Im wondering what the advantages are other than the DSP and a few non native plugins....

Only myths of advantages for the most part, I'm afraid.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:18 pm

Well, thats not entirely true. The interfaces are really top notch (192 i/o, Lynx Aurora, Apogee Symphony systems) and they integrate seemlessly with synchronization systems that are compatible with Avid video rigs as well as Digi Delivery and Satellite systems for long range collaborative work. Integration with Icon consoles, DShow and Venue systems are pretty cool. There are a number of advantages for the kind of people that will drop $20,000 on equipment several times a year but not so many advantages (and quite a few added obstacles) for the average user.

Don't believe the mix engine hype!!!

Probably the only plugins I want that you can't get for any other system are the Eventide Anthology

and ReVibe.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:21 pm

You setup a PT:HD TDM rig because without it your studio is being passed over for contracts where the client requires project-level compatibility. Unless this is an issue, there's little point beyond ego stroking for an independent studio, let alone an individual, to invest in TDM.

TDM vs. Native please explain the difference?