what are the chord types that get used alot in this style
is it mainly min 7ths 9ths etc ?
im learning all major scales, so i can build chords from the scale
but i want to be able to play chords progressions eventually,
in this stlye
kind of thing you hear in incognito albums,
also with regards to key, can you just play what ever chords you want
i relaise there are key changes sometimes between chorus / verse
but i want to understand this more, if i play cm7 and em9 does it make any difference, apart from the solo being played would have to be in each chords scale ?
sorry i need to understand it at a basic level,
sorry if i havent explained myself very well
ta leigh
Neo soul chords ?
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- KVRist
- 394 posts since 10 Aug, 2006
L P B
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
I don't know everything in neosoul half as well as I should, but I've played along with a bunch of Erykah Badu and there are a couple of things I've noticed.
1) I don't hear a lot of dominant 7 chords. I'm not saying there aren't some in the tunes, but I don't hear a lot of them.
2) I do hear a lot of the minor 9 and major 9 chords, like you said. A lot. Also 11 chords (a.k.a. "sus7" chords).
3) They don't use a ton of functional harmonic movement (again, there are violations to this rule all over the place). That chord sequence you mention--Cm9 and Em9, that's one I heard, I also hear some Cm9-Ebm9, which sounds deadly hip and I think is about as recognizable a footprint of neosoul soul as you can find.
4) There's a lot of planing going on--the same chord quality used for all the chords regardless of key. For example, you might have something like Cmaj9; Ebmaj9; Dbmaj9.
5) The melodies tend to use the chord tones, so you do actually have to switch keys when the chords change. In fact, it seems like you're switching modes rather than keys--it's modal music for the most part (given the lack of functional harmony).
6) There are, of course, a lot of tunes that are i-i-iv-v; note that the V chord is a v, in other words, the five chord in the key is still minor. Modal, like I said before.
I think a lot of the neosoul stuff is loosely based on some ideas from older tunes by Stevie Wonder and Isaac Hayes, so you might want to hunt down the chords from some of their mid 70's stuff to help you.
HTH.
1) I don't hear a lot of dominant 7 chords. I'm not saying there aren't some in the tunes, but I don't hear a lot of them.
2) I do hear a lot of the minor 9 and major 9 chords, like you said. A lot. Also 11 chords (a.k.a. "sus7" chords).
3) They don't use a ton of functional harmonic movement (again, there are violations to this rule all over the place). That chord sequence you mention--Cm9 and Em9, that's one I heard, I also hear some Cm9-Ebm9, which sounds deadly hip and I think is about as recognizable a footprint of neosoul soul as you can find.
4) There's a lot of planing going on--the same chord quality used for all the chords regardless of key. For example, you might have something like Cmaj9; Ebmaj9; Dbmaj9.
5) The melodies tend to use the chord tones, so you do actually have to switch keys when the chords change. In fact, it seems like you're switching modes rather than keys--it's modal music for the most part (given the lack of functional harmony).
6) There are, of course, a lot of tunes that are i-i-iv-v; note that the V chord is a v, in other words, the five chord in the key is still minor. Modal, like I said before.
I think a lot of the neosoul stuff is loosely based on some ideas from older tunes by Stevie Wonder and Isaac Hayes, so you might want to hunt down the chords from some of their mid 70's stuff to help you.
HTH.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 394 posts since 10 Aug, 2006
nteresting, so maj, min 9ths and 11th have some nice flavour for this particular style of music,
i always think minor is the more used chords in neo soul,
so 9ths 11ths maj or minor, and there inversions ?
ta leigh
i always think minor is the more used chords in neo soul,
so 9ths 11ths maj or minor, and there inversions ?
ta leigh
L P B
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
It's wise to learn both major and minor 7 chords, even if it seems like you don't use the major 7's much in newer soul music. I'll show you why:
Em7=E-G-B-D
Gmaj7=G-B-D-F#
Em9=E-G-B-D-F#
Try playing the Gmaj7 with an E in the bass: it's the E min 9! Because a bass player will usually be playing the root note of the chords, it's possible to get the feel of a minor 9 by playing the major 7th chord that's a third up.
Here's another trick--play an Emin7 with a C in the bass. You're actually now playing a Cmaj9.
I know, this is probably making it sound more difficult, but really, it isn't after a while. Just know that you can use a major chord voicing to get a minor sound and vice versa, depending on the bass note. When you get into those higher extensions, you're playing one chord on top of another.
The relative major 7 is slipped into a lot of minor key progressions as well, like in "You Got It Bad Girl" by Stevie Wonder. That's just one example, but there are lots of other cases.
*edit: for careless notation error
Em7=E-G-B-D
Gmaj7=G-B-D-F#
Em9=E-G-B-D-F#
Try playing the Gmaj7 with an E in the bass: it's the E min 9! Because a bass player will usually be playing the root note of the chords, it's possible to get the feel of a minor 9 by playing the major 7th chord that's a third up.
Here's another trick--play an Emin7 with a C in the bass. You're actually now playing a Cmaj9.
I know, this is probably making it sound more difficult, but really, it isn't after a while. Just know that you can use a major chord voicing to get a minor sound and vice versa, depending on the bass note. When you get into those higher extensions, you're playing one chord on top of another.
The relative major 7 is slipped into a lot of minor key progressions as well, like in "You Got It Bad Girl" by Stevie Wonder. That's just one example, but there are lots of other cases.
*edit: for careless notation error
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
I also wanted to note, don't think of these chords as being in simple root based "inversions." Few people will play an E minor 7 as E-G-B-D or G-B-D-E, they'll spread it out over their hands and might repeat a couple of the notes. One typical voicing is E, B, and D in the left hand with G and and D in the right hand, or you could play just the E in the bass and then play B, D, and G in the right, or reorder that to be D, G, and B. One of the most common voicing is called a drop 2, where you drop the second voice from the top down to the bass (e.g., in our trusty E minor, that means you'd play B in the bass with your left hand, and E, G, and D in the right hand; they invert that by playing G in the bass and B, D, and E in the right hand, etc.).leighbeynon wrote:i always think minor is the more used chords in neo soul,
so 9ths 11ths maj or minor, and there inversions ?
You can come up with dozens of voicing for this chord if you think about it that way. Voicings are a big part of what gives a keyboard player his/her characteristic sound. Experiment with it, have fun.
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- KVRAF
- 10286 posts since 17 Sep, 2004 from Austin, TX
jopy, those were some very useful posts for my brain.
I do everything so hunt-and-peck and by-ear that I never really realized the modal movement of some Stevie songs. You may have noted I rarely ever use the tonic in the bass...
I do everything so hunt-and-peck and by-ear that I never really realized the modal movement of some Stevie songs. You may have noted I rarely ever use the tonic in the bass...
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
one of the more useful recent threads on the theory forum
maybe it's just me and teh stage I'm at, but the drop 2 theory and practice seemed to finally take a little hold with this thread
what a sound
maybe it's just me and teh stage I'm at, but the drop 2 theory and practice seemed to finally take a little hold with this thread
what a sound