modern jazz theory stuff
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Back in the 1980's David Baker wrote a book called Modern concepts in Jazz Improvisation which is a brilliant summary of some of the ideas encountered in the music of people like Wayne Shorter, Freddie Hubbard, McCoy Tyner, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, and even some ideas that Ornette Coleman uses (even if Ornette isn't exactly forthcoming about how he gets there). I thought I might post some of the things I'm going over to see if anyone else has some thoughts or advice on how they've incorporated things like this into their own music.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Mission 1: The new harmonic movements
Harmonies in older jazz are reliably ii-V-I, but in modern jazz it is just as important to form progressions that use
a) pure chromatic scales
b) whole tone scales (e.g., C-D-E-Gb-Ab-Bb)
c) diminished scales (e.g., C-Db-Eb-E-Gb-G-A-Bb-C) or diminished chords
d) augmented chords (e.g., C-E-G#, which you'll recognize as the center of the Coltrane changes)
e) stacked fourths
f) bitonalities--e.g, playing a C maj over an E maj, and then developing scales that mix notes from both.
All of this is pretty much straight from Debussy with a bit of Bartok and Stravinsky thrown in for good measure.
There's also a lot of tritone substitutions used, with the substituted dominant usually being an altered chord. For example--Dm7-Db7(alt)-Cmaj7. The altered Db7 can take on some very interesting bitonalities. Try holding down a Db7 bass and playing Db, Eb, and G triads in various inversions. Very hip.
Harmonies in older jazz are reliably ii-V-I, but in modern jazz it is just as important to form progressions that use
a) pure chromatic scales
b) whole tone scales (e.g., C-D-E-Gb-Ab-Bb)
c) diminished scales (e.g., C-Db-Eb-E-Gb-G-A-Bb-C) or diminished chords
d) augmented chords (e.g., C-E-G#, which you'll recognize as the center of the Coltrane changes)
e) stacked fourths
f) bitonalities--e.g, playing a C maj over an E maj, and then developing scales that mix notes from both.
All of this is pretty much straight from Debussy with a bit of Bartok and Stravinsky thrown in for good measure.
There's also a lot of tritone substitutions used, with the substituted dominant usually being an altered chord. For example--Dm7-Db7(alt)-Cmaj7. The altered Db7 can take on some very interesting bitonalities. Try holding down a Db7 bass and playing Db, Eb, and G triads in various inversions. Very hip.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Mission 2: Pentatonic scales
Every guitar player knows his or her pentatonic scales from the start, and they're the root of most blues. So it's a little odd to start from learning pentatonic patterns as a direction to something new. What is new in modern jazz is the treatment of pentatonic scales. Rather than outlining chords, it is more common to use pentatonic runs, and they aren't necessarily from the key of the tune. Many of the exercises involve taking simple pentatonic runs and then repeating them in several keys over a pedal point. This really is the essence of modern modal playing. Moving the scale roots according to the six scale types described in 1 is immediately recognizable as the sound of contemporary jazz.
Every guitar player knows his or her pentatonic scales from the start, and they're the root of most blues. So it's a little odd to start from learning pentatonic patterns as a direction to something new. What is new in modern jazz is the treatment of pentatonic scales. Rather than outlining chords, it is more common to use pentatonic runs, and they aren't necessarily from the key of the tune. Many of the exercises involve taking simple pentatonic runs and then repeating them in several keys over a pedal point. This really is the essence of modern modal playing. Moving the scale roots according to the six scale types described in 1 is immediately recognizable as the sound of contemporary jazz.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Mission 3: Harmonizing in fourths
Another technique that is used frequently in modern jazz is playing harmonies in fourths as a means of minimizing the feel of functional harmony. We all know this already, but I've found it's still worthwhile going through standards and figuring out fourths that can go over a chord. As an example, using a three note chord in fourths (e.g., C-F-Bb or G-C-F, etc.), which is a very standard modern jazz voicing, you could play stacked fourths over a C major7 (or D dorian, or A aeolian, etc.) with roots on on D, E, A, or B and be completely in the key, and sound very inside. But using stacked fourths on the tritone really gives a great contemporary vibe, and moving the stacked fourths in patterns. This is a big part of the reason I tune my guitar in all fourths--dead simple to achieve this sound.
Another technique that is used frequently in modern jazz is playing harmonies in fourths as a means of minimizing the feel of functional harmony. We all know this already, but I've found it's still worthwhile going through standards and figuring out fourths that can go over a chord. As an example, using a three note chord in fourths (e.g., C-F-Bb or G-C-F, etc.), which is a very standard modern jazz voicing, you could play stacked fourths over a C major7 (or D dorian, or A aeolian, etc.) with roots on on D, E, A, or B and be completely in the key, and sound very inside. But using stacked fourths on the tritone really gives a great contemporary vibe, and moving the stacked fourths in patterns. This is a big part of the reason I tune my guitar in all fourths--dead simple to achieve this sound.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Example of several of these techniques:
This is the Coltrane-Tyner-Garrison-Jones quartet playing live in France. The piece is a Love Supreme, which is a very simple construction, consisting of the opening saxophone "horn call," the melody, and then the whole group improvising around the same four note pentatonic melodic cell (F-Ab-F-Bb; from the pentatonic scale F-Ab-Bb-C-Eb). 'Trane stays in that main pentatonic scale for a suprisingly long time (he sounds like he's going outside because Tyner is comping in those perfect fourths with a lot of movement outside the key), but slowly works in some other pentatonic scales (check around 2:09). The incredible, unbelievable unity of this piece largely comes from the repetition of the same grounding phrase and a very small number of pentatonic cells. McCoy's technique is really heavy, an interesting contrast with the much cooler, sparse approach that Herbie Hancock brought to essentially the same harmonic material.
A tip for the McCoy Tyner sound--try doing a bass pedal point tremolo in octaves on the low end of the piano while playing stacked chords in fourths using the modern root movement ideas. You can hear it right away. This is definitely a cliche at this point, and McCoy owns it so you can't help but sound like a bad ripoff of him, so I wouldn't use it for real, but it's worth some experimenting as a starting point.
FWIW: That horn call at the beginning seems to be based primarily on B-E-F#, which is just an inversion of the stacked fourth formed off of F#. Gorgeous sound, not in the same key as the rest of the tune.
This is the Coltrane-Tyner-Garrison-Jones quartet playing live in France. The piece is a Love Supreme, which is a very simple construction, consisting of the opening saxophone "horn call," the melody, and then the whole group improvising around the same four note pentatonic melodic cell (F-Ab-F-Bb; from the pentatonic scale F-Ab-Bb-C-Eb). 'Trane stays in that main pentatonic scale for a suprisingly long time (he sounds like he's going outside because Tyner is comping in those perfect fourths with a lot of movement outside the key), but slowly works in some other pentatonic scales (check around 2:09). The incredible, unbelievable unity of this piece largely comes from the repetition of the same grounding phrase and a very small number of pentatonic cells. McCoy's technique is really heavy, an interesting contrast with the much cooler, sparse approach that Herbie Hancock brought to essentially the same harmonic material.
A tip for the McCoy Tyner sound--try doing a bass pedal point tremolo in octaves on the low end of the piano while playing stacked chords in fourths using the modern root movement ideas. You can hear it right away. This is definitely a cliche at this point, and McCoy owns it so you can't help but sound like a bad ripoff of him, so I wouldn't use it for real, but it's worth some experimenting as a starting point.
FWIW: That horn call at the beginning seems to be based primarily on B-E-F#, which is just an inversion of the stacked fourth formed off of F#. Gorgeous sound, not in the same key as the rest of the tune.
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- angelboy
- 4586 posts since 21 Aug, 2001 from Larnaca, Cyprus
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- KVRist
- 35 posts since 26 Jun, 2008 from Cornwall UK
About a month ago I got "JAZZ COMPOSITION, THEORY AND PRACTICE" by Ted Pease from Berklee Press. This is very informative and includes all those items you noted including exercises to do. These are surprisingly, many being of the "finish off the following ... " type. I wouldn't normally bother with this but these have been very helpful and informative and in many case encourage ideas on whihch to work later.
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- KVRist
- 105 posts since 4 Aug, 2008 from Atlanta, GA
buckshead,
I have that Ted Pease book, too and it is excellent. It really helped expand my knowledge of writing jazz pieces. Two good companion books to this one are "Modern Jazz Voicings" also by Ted Pease and "Arranging for Large Jazz Ensemble" by Dick Lowell and Ken Pullig. All of these are from Berklee Press. Working through these books will really build your jazz chops!
I have that Ted Pease book, too and it is excellent. It really helped expand my knowledge of writing jazz pieces. Two good companion books to this one are "Modern Jazz Voicings" also by Ted Pease and "Arranging for Large Jazz Ensemble" by Dick Lowell and Ken Pullig. All of these are from Berklee Press. Working through these books will really build your jazz chops!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Thanks for the book recommendations guys. I certainly am no expert on this--just working things through on my own, so I should check that out. I've looked over a few of the other Berklee books and they seem very well organized and get to the heart of the matter quickly.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
So much for the harmony (for now), I want to think through some ideas about melody and form now. I'm afraid that I need to reference specific songs, so I hope that people are at least marginally familiar with the modern repertoire. I use youtube links to supplement.
The superminimal melody over a modal pattern
(often with the rhythm section using a vamp and hits)
The Coltrane clip (the first movement of A Love Supreme) from before is like this; it's basically one pentatonic riff and its development. The second movement of a Love Supreme is also similarly simple. Equinox is also just a single melodic idea. Most of what Ornette Coleman wrote follows the same principle, but with the difference that Ornette has crazy sounding heads because of the relationship between the rhythm section and the person playing the lead (I will try to understand some principles behind these in a bit). The thing that I think makes these so interesting with that small amount of material is the use of contrast. Equinox for example--it's just outlining a C minor triad for the first 8 bars, so when that D arrives in the 9th bar it feels like something really substantial has changed.
In A Love Supreme, the contrast doesn't come from the written part, but from the inevitable excursion into other keys during the improvisation. It's strangely similar to the development section of a sonata form, with the ranging around keys using a snippet from the main motif.
Camp Out by John Scofield is also just a bass vamp and "Hello Mother, Hello Father."
Thomas Chapin does some really interesting work with a single idea and a few off-tempo hits on this tune:
There are other tracks that are also very melodically simple and then have mildly contrasting bridges, usually contrasting just because of an unexpected mode change.
Maiden Voyage by Herbie Hancock changes modes every four bars, but again the interest comes from the contrast of the very consonant melody moving from the head consisting of just D11 and F11 to the bridge that has Eb11 and Db11. And the biggest source of contrast is playing the same basic cell, transposed into a different key.
Passion Dance from McCoy Tyner falls into this category.
I've found that these tunes are deceptively difficult to write and solo over. It seems like the absolutely simplest thing you can do in jazz, any rookie who knows a couple of scales can sound okay playing over these modal tunes, but to make them sound good I think it's a lot more disciplined. Knowing how to hold back and not play too much is my biggest challenge, space is sort of scary when you're improvising. Also, establishing the unique feel of the tune is a real challenge. Listen to Maiden Voyage and just how much space and fluidity the group manages to pull off, and then contrast that with the burning fire and intensity that Coltrane's quartets have.
I'm still stuck in the 1960's and 1970's, which is 50 years ago. I will try to use newer examples.
The superminimal melody over a modal pattern
(often with the rhythm section using a vamp and hits)
The Coltrane clip (the first movement of A Love Supreme) from before is like this; it's basically one pentatonic riff and its development. The second movement of a Love Supreme is also similarly simple. Equinox is also just a single melodic idea. Most of what Ornette Coleman wrote follows the same principle, but with the difference that Ornette has crazy sounding heads because of the relationship between the rhythm section and the person playing the lead (I will try to understand some principles behind these in a bit). The thing that I think makes these so interesting with that small amount of material is the use of contrast. Equinox for example--it's just outlining a C minor triad for the first 8 bars, so when that D arrives in the 9th bar it feels like something really substantial has changed.
In A Love Supreme, the contrast doesn't come from the written part, but from the inevitable excursion into other keys during the improvisation. It's strangely similar to the development section of a sonata form, with the ranging around keys using a snippet from the main motif.
Camp Out by John Scofield is also just a bass vamp and "Hello Mother, Hello Father."
Thomas Chapin does some really interesting work with a single idea and a few off-tempo hits on this tune:
There are other tracks that are also very melodically simple and then have mildly contrasting bridges, usually contrasting just because of an unexpected mode change.
Maiden Voyage by Herbie Hancock changes modes every four bars, but again the interest comes from the contrast of the very consonant melody moving from the head consisting of just D11 and F11 to the bridge that has Eb11 and Db11. And the biggest source of contrast is playing the same basic cell, transposed into a different key.
Passion Dance from McCoy Tyner falls into this category.
I've found that these tunes are deceptively difficult to write and solo over. It seems like the absolutely simplest thing you can do in jazz, any rookie who knows a couple of scales can sound okay playing over these modal tunes, but to make them sound good I think it's a lot more disciplined. Knowing how to hold back and not play too much is my biggest challenge, space is sort of scary when you're improvising. Also, establishing the unique feel of the tune is a real challenge. Listen to Maiden Voyage and just how much space and fluidity the group manages to pull off, and then contrast that with the burning fire and intensity that Coltrane's quartets have.
I'm still stuck in the 1960's and 1970's, which is 50 years ago. I will try to use newer examples.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
The "complex" tune:
The other type of tune that seems to come up a lot in the more modern jazz is the opposite extreme of the super-basic modal tune. I'm thinking here of tunes like Dolphin Dance or Orbits (though there are many other examples). These pieces all have very long chord progressions with key centers that are notable for not being closely related to one another, and they have a lot of breaks and hits in odd places. These are the tunes that have always scared me, they're not easy to learn or play.
The Real Book tells me Orbits has a very strange progression leading into the first cadence which I broke up into three sections to show the structure (I think);
1) C7-A7(b9)/Ebm7/Gm7(b5)/
2) C7-A7(b9)/Ebm7/Ebm7/
3) C7-A7(b9)/D7/Gm7
First, it's 9 bars long, not your standard multiple of four. It starts with a three bar phrase, with the repeat being stretched over six bars. Completely chaotic, right? And the melody and rhythmic feel of this section stops and starts frantically. But I think functionally it's all just part of a diminished scale. C7-A7-Eb7-Gb7; The Eb minor catches that Bb note and the Gm7b5 is maybe standing in for the Eb7? Then it ends with a surprise--a ii-V-I in G minor. It still feels like an odd "resolution" and it gives way to the next section section.
4) Dbmaj7/Ebmaj7/Ebmin7/D7
5) Dbmin7/Cm7
6) Gb7/Abmaj7/Abm7/Gm7
4 is four bars with planing, modal interchange, and whatever you call that "cadence." Someone please tell me why that sounds so good to me. I was thinking the end is a ii-V-I sort of cadence leading to that Db min7 in 5, with the D7 being a tritone substitution for Ab7.
6) is a lot like the 4) progression repeated up a fourth, with some serious modifications.
So we come to what seems like the final unit of the piece, which is a vampish phrase that has the root notes seeming to outline the notes of a G minor chord. Functionally I can't figure it out at all, but it sounds logical anyway:
1) Bbm7/Fm7/Dmaj7(#5)/Gm7
2) Bbm7/Fm7/Dmaj7(#5)/Gm7
3) Dmaj7(#5)/Gm7
And here they start to set up the solos with a more structured groove.
Can anyone else make heads or tails of this? I don't think I've analyzed it very well.
The other type of tune that seems to come up a lot in the more modern jazz is the opposite extreme of the super-basic modal tune. I'm thinking here of tunes like Dolphin Dance or Orbits (though there are many other examples). These pieces all have very long chord progressions with key centers that are notable for not being closely related to one another, and they have a lot of breaks and hits in odd places. These are the tunes that have always scared me, they're not easy to learn or play.
The Real Book tells me Orbits has a very strange progression leading into the first cadence which I broke up into three sections to show the structure (I think);
1) C7-A7(b9)/Ebm7/Gm7(b5)/
2) C7-A7(b9)/Ebm7/Ebm7/
3) C7-A7(b9)/D7/Gm7
First, it's 9 bars long, not your standard multiple of four. It starts with a three bar phrase, with the repeat being stretched over six bars. Completely chaotic, right? And the melody and rhythmic feel of this section stops and starts frantically. But I think functionally it's all just part of a diminished scale. C7-A7-Eb7-Gb7; The Eb minor catches that Bb note and the Gm7b5 is maybe standing in for the Eb7? Then it ends with a surprise--a ii-V-I in G minor. It still feels like an odd "resolution" and it gives way to the next section section.
4) Dbmaj7/Ebmaj7/Ebmin7/D7
5) Dbmin7/Cm7
6) Gb7/Abmaj7/Abm7/Gm7
4 is four bars with planing, modal interchange, and whatever you call that "cadence." Someone please tell me why that sounds so good to me. I was thinking the end is a ii-V-I sort of cadence leading to that Db min7 in 5, with the D7 being a tritone substitution for Ab7.
6) is a lot like the 4) progression repeated up a fourth, with some serious modifications.
So we come to what seems like the final unit of the piece, which is a vampish phrase that has the root notes seeming to outline the notes of a G minor chord. Functionally I can't figure it out at all, but it sounds logical anyway:
1) Bbm7/Fm7/Dmaj7(#5)/Gm7
2) Bbm7/Fm7/Dmaj7(#5)/Gm7
3) Dmaj7(#5)/Gm7
And here they start to set up the solos with a more structured groove.
Can anyone else make heads or tails of this? I don't think I've analyzed it very well.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
I thought others might be interested in this page:
http://www.modaljazz.com/theory3.html
In particular, the exercises for learning how to structure a modal solo using organizing principles of silence, chord or non-chord tones, and chromatic "side-slipping" are all very helpful. Things most musicians who improvise over modal tunes may have stumbled upon accidentally or through listening, but it's nice to see it systematized like this.
http://www.modaljazz.com/theory3.html
In particular, the exercises for learning how to structure a modal solo using organizing principles of silence, chord or non-chord tones, and chromatic "side-slipping" are all very helpful. Things most musicians who improvise over modal tunes may have stumbled upon accidentally or through listening, but it's nice to see it systematized like this.
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- KVRist
- 179 posts since 1 May, 2007 from Apartment Zero
hunh. well, I would not have expected to see this tune in this place. Life is full of surprises!jmeier wrote: Can anyone else make heads or tails of this? I don't think I've analyzed it very well.
I'm stuck with dial-up, so can't see the youtube thing but you're talking about the 65-68 Miles quintet, right?
I wish I had some deep wisdom to impart about this tune, I don't, haven't played it other than reading through the head after reading this topic. with that disclaimer, a few random observations (on the Miles Smiles version, dunno about the video since I can't see it) --
The first difficulty is the Real Book chart isn't right. What's notated there as the first nine bars is pretty clearly in three, not four. There are no chords as such. The bass doesn't really outline or imply those chords either, they seem to be arbitrarily extrapolated from the trumpet/tenor line -- you can make a case for C-something, A-something, G-something there, but by bar 10 where the chart says Dbmaj7 Ron outlines a Gbm triad (and the meter changes to four). The Eb in bar 12 should be a Db. In the solos the implied tonal centers at any moment don't seem to correspond exactly to what happened in the head, or in the other solos -- actually until they quote one of those figures from the head it's not easy to know where they are in the form. It almost sounds free (as in time-no-changes) with the band cuing off that melodic figure at the end of the head.
Here's something, the tune in question is Pinocchio, but it goes to the same basic question -- what was on Wayne's chart?
http://www.stevekhan.com/pinocchioa.htm
I think the only way out is through on this one -- to get a real grasp of it, the thing to do would be transcribe the parts, make your own chart, learn the solos, and let it all sink in for a year or two (or three, or ten), and see what emerges. I don't think the Real Book is gonna be much help here.
well I hope that's a solid two cents. The subject is difficult
good luck with it, and thanks for reminding me of that record. It's exquisite stuff, certainly worth pursuing if you have the time and energy.oh yeah, there's another version of Orbits on Shorter's Alegria, completely reworked -- sounds like a different composition developed from fragments of the original, might be illuminating to learn them both
Yes. That's a human ear, all right.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
thanks for the insights there beboop. this is indeed the 65-68 quintet, basically playing the same version that's on miles smiles. now that i read through your post, the idea that this piece just doesn't correspond to conventional harmonic analysis seems to make a lot of sense. i have tended to lean way too much on the real book, which i suppose is fine for standards but is basically useless in some respects for things like this tune. i think i need to think more conceptually and use my ears more.