Miroslav Philharmonik CE

[taijiguy]

So I just received the Miroslav Philarmonik™ Classik Edition and I'm finding that for the most part, I like it better than Garritan GPO. But if I want to upgrade to the full version, it's going to cost me another $399.99 as a crossgrade from SampleTank or T-Racks. If I only knew I would like it so much, I could have saved the $99.99 for the CE version and gone straight to the full version. Is there no way to upgrade from the CE version? Maybe this is really a question for IKMultimedia.

[buscemi]

I suggested this as a Group Buy of some sort, and/or extras for the other $99 steals. Hopefully it will take off, as I don't think I can resist Miroslav much longer.

[sylva]

You're saying you like Miroslav. How are the instruments? How is the suite of articulations? How are the string legatos? Is sound realistic enough? How is its sample player? You're saying Miroslav is better than Garritan. Better sounding? More articulations? It had better be better, it's quite more expensive (well, the full version). In general, I am not thrilled with some of the orchestral software out there because at times harmonic structures don't sound quite as they should when orchestrated, that is, they taste to me a bit synthesized. How's this with Miroslav? Of course, you can add whatever other impressions you have. I am now looking to buy, and your critique will count in my decision making process.

Thanks much in advance.

Sylva

[taijiguy]

You're saying you like Miroslav. How are the instruments? How is the suite of articulations? How are the string legatos? Is sound realistic enough? How is its sample player? You're saying Miroslav is better than Garritan. Better sounding? More articulations? It had better be better, it's quite more expensive (well, the full version). In general, I am not thrilled with some of the orchestral software out there because at times harmonic structures don't sound quite as they should when orchestrated, that is, they taste to me a bit synthesized. How's this with Miroslav? Of course, you can add whatever other impressions you have. I am now looking to buy, and your critique will count in my decision making process.

Thanks much in advance.

Sylva

Generally speaking, I prefer the sound of Miroslav over GPO; not that I don't like GPO though. Until I got the CE version of Miroslav to compare with GPO, I was quite satisfied with GPO. But Miroslav seems to have a smoother, mellower sound. I can't comment on the articulation because the CE version doesn't have the level of articulation that GPO has. I wouldn't completely replace GPO with Miroslav because it has its own personality and sound, although a bit more pronounced in the mid range, but I would like to have the full version of Miroslav in addition to GPO. Maybe there are better VSTi than either, but cost is also a factor for me.

[Squids]

Contact allen (at) esoundz (dot) com to try to work out a satisfying deal on an upgrade from CE to the full version. I am sure he can accomdate you within reason.

[sylva]

Thank you for your input, taigy.

It is NOT for me to describe the lesser parts of any VSTi, but I have to add that some of the elements in Garritan Pocket (NOT Personal, which I don't know) Orchestra that come with Dimension LE are less than satisfactory, to say the least. Actually, most of them, except perhaps Horns and Oboes, sound to me pretty much like General Midi instruments. Obviously, impressions are subjective and a matter of taste, so you might not agree with me. Basses and Cellos are usable, but the Violins, especially long bow and Tremolos are unusable. I don't give up easily on sample shortcomings, especially that I have that "engineering" bent, and, if needed, I work samples to death in the process of obtaining decently sounding orchestrations. I also have financial constraints, however, I want a package that will have sample sounds that at least resemble real instruments. Yeah, I know, the eternal answer is "buy EastWest". I am looking for something intermediate, at least for now, something that's far away from those awful MIDI sounds of the early days of music synthesis. If packages costing $3-400 will sound like MIDI with some sort of articulations thrown in, then I am not looking for that, since my controller keyboard (very good at $260) has all General MIDI instruments built in. It also has a number of effects built into its ROMs. So why would one buy an expensive package of MIDI sounding software when he already has those sounds built into his hardware? This I'll have to justify when buying any instrumental software.

Thanks for your patience.

Sylva.

[taijiguy]

Contact allen (at) esoundz (dot) com to try to work out a satisfying deal on an upgrade from CE to the full version. I am sure he can accomdate you within reason.

Thanks for the suggestion Squids. I just sent off an email.

[taijiguy]

If packages costing $3-400 will sound like MIDI with some sort of articulations thrown in, then I am not looking for that, since my controller keyboard (very good at $260) has all General MIDI instruments built in. It also has a number of effects built into its ROMs. So why would one buy an expensive package of MIDI sounding software when he already has those sounds built into his hardware? This I'll have to justify when buying any instrumental software.

Sylva, it's not possible to use someone elses ears, so I can only tell you that I don't think Miroslav sounds anything like GM. The sounds are sweeter to my ears than GPO. It would be nice though if some other more experienced folks would throw in their opinions of Miroslav.

[sylva]

Surely, and I already agreed that it is a matter of taste, but I, who conducted large symphony orchestras, can't help having that built in ear for this incredible instrument. So when I take to composition I have that sound in my internal ear. What can I do, for me MIDI is MIDI and it will always remain just that, and orchestral sound is orchestral sound.

Oh, and BTW, is it Quanzhou or Guangzhou?

Your English is perfect. Did you go to school in the US? (not to get personal, just interested )

[taijiguy]

Oh, and BTW, is it Quanzhou or Guangzhou?

Your English is perfect. Did you go to school in the US? (not to get personal, just interested )

Quanzhou and Guangzhou are different cities in China. My profile lists my location as Kangzhou. That's Chinese for Connecticut. I'm not Chinese (although my wife is). I was born in the U.S., but have been to China several times to study and compete in Taijiquan, hence my name "taijiguy".

[sylva]

Of course they're different, that's why I asked. But of course, I didn't know that Kangzsou was Connecticut

Anyway, I have to look out big time because, being a graduate student, I have to remain extremely mindful about spending. Demos, well, I don't trust. They're well crafted by professionals who spend their life on making those demos as appealing and perfect as they can get. This is why I am asking people, hoping they won't get offended when I dig deeper for their input.

Sylva.

[sylva]

I reread my postings and I think I became a bit complicated in expressing myself.

All I wished to know was whether violins in Miroslav more or less sounded like real violins, trumpets like trumpets and flutes like flutes, etc., and didn't sound like those awful MIDI strings and trumpets. This is really my main criterion. Surely, it's very nice when the instruments come with different articulations, which most of the packages in this price range have to a certain extent.

Sylva

[KindredSpirit]

Wow a group buy would be so brilliant. I was going to go for the CE version but now wondering if to go for the full version instead. The refills for Reason might be a good idea but would I get the full benefit?

Let's beg!!! for a group buy

[politcat]

I was going to go for the CE version...

Let's beg!!! for a group buy

would be cool if it included an option to upgrade to full

[Chester Desmond]

Generally speaking, I prefer the sound of Miroslav over GPO; not that I don't like GPO though.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Miro library has the reverb of the hall where they were recorded "built into" the samples, whereas GPO is basically dry. The first impression is likely to be more favorable towards Miro for this reason but has the down side of being less flexible in terms of mixing and effecting the output.
I'm not questioning the above-quoted person, but just adding a comment for those who are weighing pros and cons.

As a sweeping generalization I would say that the GPO is more performance oriented, ie better realtime control and more flexible in terms of smaller ensembles, solo instrument options, and , as mentioned, effects possibilities. It has a lot of keyswitching built in which allows you to change articulations on the fly and\or place a note in the piano roll without having to load another preset\articulation.
Miroslav is slanted more towards large arrangements and the way it has been programmed (especially some of the excellent combis provided) is begging to be used in epic ways. It has no key-switching and so you may end up having to load up more articulations to get a sequence to play back as desired. However a lot of the combis are programmed such that velocity or mod wheel will switch between articulations and again some of the programming choices make for really great sounding scenarios (ie a light touch will have a soft string sound but a hard press will bring in the whole section with timpani and horn blasts- very fun!).

I have the full versions of both so I can't comment on the Pocket|CE aspect (ie what's missing in comparison with the full libraries) but as for "realism", they both sound very good to me. Maybe I'm the wrong person to comment on this aspect since I often find real orchestral recording to sound synth-like (how orchestral instruments are supposed to sound is not my forte, and has probably been affected by movie soundtracks where it's not always clear what's real and not) but I can't think of any instance in playing either library where I've had a distinct idea that they sounded artificial or too synthetic. I believe this type of limitation is often noticed (and overcome) by (the manipulation of) the performance -timing, articulation, knowledge of real world usage\orchestration etc.

Both Garritan and IK\Esoundz are very easy to deal with and I aquired both libraries through smoking deals, group buys etc. at very little cost when compared to full retail. Patience is almost always rewarded in this market!