KVR Audio

chicagodannyd · Post by **chicagodannyd** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:58 am

I am busting my butt to write a really nice song, writing the notes over and over again, trying to make the vs, chorus, refrain match, but they don't. The song is very melodic; the chords are real nice, BUT the only way everything can be written is if the verse is in 6/8 time, then in comes the chorus of 4/4 time. The refrain is 4/4. Is this acceptable? Maybe I'm not that experienced enough. In all my years of playing the trumpet, I don't think I ran into a song that uses two time signatures. But then again, it reminded me of some latin music where maybe the song starts off slow, then jumps into a faster rhythm. But mine is in two signatures. Mmmm. What to do. I'm not giving up on this song!

Cordelia · Post by **Cordelia** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:02 am

Absolutely. It's done regularly.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:04 am

There are tons of popular pieces using more than one time signature. First few that come to mind - 'All You Need is Love' by the Beatles, 'Solisbury Hill' by Peter Gabriel, 'Money' by Pink Floyd.

Don't worry about that, just write it the way you want. Convention was made to be broken...

debra1rlo · Post by **debra1rlo** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:26 am

Yeah, don't worry it's done all the time. In fact, some people think it makes you look cool.

gnu23 · Post by **gnu23** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:10 am

chicagodannyd wrote:I am busting my butt to write a really nice song, writing the notes over and over again, trying to make the vs, chorus, refrain match, but they don't. The song is very melodic; the chords are real nice, BUT the only way everything can be written is if the verse is in 6/8 time, then in comes the chorus of 4/4 time. The refrain is 4/4. Is this acceptable? Maybe I'm not that experienced enough. In all my years of playing the trumpet, I don't think I ran into a song that uses two time signatures. But then again, it reminded me of some latin music where maybe the song starts off slow, then jumps into a faster rhythm. But mine is in two signatures. Mmmm. What to do. I'm not giving up on this song!

Go for it. Do what works for the song. Serve the muse. There is no spoon.

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:38 am

chicagodannyd wrote: the verse is in 6/8 time, then in comes the chorus of 4/4 time.

No problem at all. You see this often in jazz standards, which have an AABA structure. People will often play the A section with a latin-ish rhythm, and the B section with the usual swing rhythm. Or the other way around.

Most versions of Night In Tunesia do this.

Now, two diferent time signatures simultaneously is a bit more rare. I have a duet piece that I sometimes play with has 2/4 in the one instrument, and 6/8 in the other. Since they both play eighth and sixteenth notes it sounds somewhat wild.

Of course, Ives' fourth symphony uses so many simultaneous time signatures that for its first performance they needed three conductors.

Victor.

ObBadJoke: that must have been electrifying.

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:51 am

For a 'popular choice', listen to REM's Shiny Happy People - string quartet in 3/4, rest of song in 4/4.

Poster who cited Solsbury Hill.. sorry, it's 7/4 all the way through, no matter what songbooks may transcribe!

DSP

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:37 pm

duncanparsons wrote:For a 'popular choice', listen to REM's Shiny Happy People - string quartet in 3/4, rest of song in 4/4.

Poster who cited Solsbury Hill.. sorry, it's 7/4 all the way through, no matter what songbooks may transcribe!

DSP

Not sure you're right about Solsbury Hill. I think I worked out is was 7/4, then suddenly found that there was an odd count here and there. I think it's something like the end of each verse is another time signature. Only a small change, but I think it's there.

I'll check.

PaulSC · Post by **PaulSC** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:19 pm

robojam wrote:
duncanparsons wrote:For a 'popular choice', listen to REM's Shiny Happy People - string quartet in 3/4, rest of song in 4/4.

Poster who cited Solsbury Hill.. sorry, it's 7/4 all the way through, no matter what songbooks may transcribe!

DSP
Not sure you're right about Solsbury Hill. I think I worked out is was 7/4, then suddenly found that there was an odd count here and there. I think it's something like the end of each verse is another time signature. Only a small change, but I think it's there.

I'll check.

That's correct, the end of the Chorus switches to two bars of 4/4 (or one bar of 8/4) in place of the expected one bar of 7/4

buckshead · Post by **buckshead** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:29 pm

Have as many as you like, they're only there to help you. there are lots of songs with just the odd bar with a different time signature

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:06 am

wrt S.H. - never noticed that! I sit corrected

DSP

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:25 pm

duncanparsons wrote:wrt S.H. - never noticed that! I sit corrected

DSP

Probably because it's such a small part of the song. Just kind of jumps out as being 'wrong' in some way when you hear that part. I had to play it back a few times before I realized what it was that made it sound so odd.

PaulSC · Post by **PaulSC** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:18 pm

If you really want your expectations messed with, check out Erasure's cover of Solsbury Hill -- they do the whole thing in 4/4, and it sounds so WEIRD in that most "normal" of meters.

mellotronaut · Post by **mellotronaut** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:30 pm

i have 2 time-signatures: here and there (couldn't resist

)

g'd nite mello

jkleban · Post by **jkleban** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:58 pm

There is even an early GENESIS tune (In the Cage) where the keyboards are in 4/4 and the drummer plays in 3/4 time... very interesting and it only lasts during the intro.

Jim

Can a song have two time signatures?