Cubase 5: Why I switched (headquest)

Audio Plugin Hosts and other audio software applications discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Well, after a few years of not using one big DAW programme, I took the plunge and celebrated the end of the tax year by spontaneously investing in Cubase 5. :shock:

So for those of you who have witnessned my previous mostly hostile attitude towards Cubase and Steinberg this may be a shock. Why buy Cubase now? Some explanation for the sake of anyone interested...

To start with, when I got into music technology a few years back it was principally because I teach music and compose stuff. I used Sibelius right since version 1 for notation, and occasionally dabbled with Cubase. I wanted to go much further. After some research I decided to go for Cubase SX1, Live 2 and Reason 2. These packages seemed to represent different approaches which I could learn from over time.

Cubase SX1 was a disaster for me, and before long I had switched to Tracktion which I totally loved for a time. But as the software became less reliable for me, I became frustrated. At the same time Live was beginning to move towards a full-on host, and I had bought Adobe Audition for editing audio - again a programme with DAW aspirations. I wa fortunate to be given a boxed version of Sonar 5, which could have been the perfect Tracktion replacement... but it really did not fit for me at all. I also tried Reaper and a couple of others.

In recent months I realised that the desire for a full-on DAW is not going away. Within my sphere, PT8, Logic 8 and Cubase 5 are the three most respected/known programmes of their kind, and I narrowed the choice down to those three. After trying out Logic in a school and having some help with it I knew it was definitely not for me. Several pupils a day come into my teaching studio, and I want to convey the message that Music Tech is something anyone can get into. Buying a Mac + Logic sends the message that Music Tech is something rather exclusive for special people who can afford special computers - just not the message I want to give my students. To some extent the same appies to PT M-Powered, although buying an M-Box is not inaccessible. But there are limitations with PT MP that I decided I cannot live with.

So that brought me full circle to Cubase 5...

Then Live 8 was announced. Could my prefered software finally be the dream DAW for me? Well, after a few weeks of beta testing the penny dropped: Live is never going to be that sort of DAW, however much Ableton care to present it that way in their marketing. Their bizarre implementation of crossfades in Arrangement - Note: NOT auto-crossfades - is so odd that even their own developers were unable to answer the question, "why would anyone want this implementation?". I realised that great though Live is, and capable though Arrangment is for finishing off tracks jammed in the Session View, it will never be the right DAW for anyone interested in multitrack audio recording and detailed MIDI editing. The failure to understand ordinary crossfades as used by, well, everyone else, shows to me that Ableton are not actually the people who are going to create the Studio DAW to die for.

So there it is. I decided that for professional reasons and in order to have that full-on Studio DAW the right choice now is Cubase. The features added in the last couple of upgrades are both excellent and even innovative. I get the impression that since YAMAHA bought Steinberg, they have regained their stability and confidence to develop the best DAW around.

I will keep Live 7 (maybe upgrade to 8 at some point) and Reason 4, but just suspect I may be using them far less in future. So far I am loving Cubase, and far more than I thought I would...

Later on I will shamelessly bump this thread by giving a full account of my first impressions of Cubase 5 as an ex-Cubase-hater! Maybe that will be more interesting than this post!! I may have a bunch of newbie questions too (although so far I have been shocked by how easy Cubase now is to use - certainly a transformation from how I experienced SX1).

Peace. :cool:

Post

I've been hesitant to move to upgrade from Cubase 4 to 5... Ableton is my preferred composition tool, but final detail work, I like to do in Cubase. I don't see enough difference between Cubase 4 and Cubase 5 in the areas I mainly use it to warrant paying the upgrade price (yet). Between Cubase SX 3 and Cubase 4, the biggest change that has affected me most is the ability to re-order VSTs. Simple concept, but it was enough for me :)
:Sledge

Post

great post, Headquest! I've always wished to find the perfect host, but no: impossible. It's like with cameras: we need at least three of them. :hihi:
"It dreamed itself along"

Post

How much did Stingberg pay you to write that drivel? :roll:

:hihi:
Image
:: FL Studio v9.0.3 :: u-he Zebra2 v2.5 :: u-he MFM v2.0.2b5 :: u-he Uhbik v1.1 :: EnergyXT v1.4.1/v2.0.2 ::

Post

Hehe, for me it was the opposite. I started switching over to Live 7 after Cubase 4 came out and was so buggy. Then with Cubase getting more stable I started using it more again once in a while. Now with Live 8 out there is no need for me to to use any other DAW but Live. Are there still some features missing in Live 8? Absolutely! Imho though, there just isn't any other software that is more inspiring than making music in Live, and as long as I can get complete songs done in Live I don't need anything else. Glad you like Cubase 5 though. I think that's what makes this so great, there are enough choices out there to choose what best fits your own workflow.

And no I don't make loop based music. :)

Ken

Post

Congrats !
You obviously put a lot of thought in that decision and are not afraid to reevaluate former beliefs, this mature approach will bring its rewards for you again and again. :tu:
And re C5, for me at least Cubase has always been a joy to use (well, 100% perfection will remain an illusion) since the SX1 days when I reluctantly was switched :roll: from Logic, and I fully agree Steinberg has gained considerable momentum from the acquisition by Yamaha.
Enjoy your new addiction and I'm sure you'll find lots of help here and at the official forums in case you're puzzled by some details, Cubase can be pretty deep if you want it to be and not everything is glaringly obvious.
Definitely worth the learning curve imho as you can develop your very personal workflow with it.
Cheers,
susiwong

Post

headquest wrote:Buying a Mac + Logic sends the message that Music Tech is something rather exclusive for special people who can afford special computers - just not the message I want to give my students.
That an irrational impression given that the least expensive Mac mini is $599.00. But even so, having that impression yourself is not anything that you would have been obliged to pass on to your students. You simply could have informed them of the available choices that you're aware of -- minus your fears and biases.
I Music.

Post

Thanks for the great comments. No, Steinberg didn't pay me :hihi: unfortunately :wink:.

Susiwong - thanks for the support and its good to know there are some great people willing to help if/when I get stuck. Setting up my audio hardware was an interesting challenge (who would have thought to look in the "VST Connections" tab for that stuff :shit: ) but otherwise I'm okay so far. I have been using the Music Tech Magazine Focus Cubase issue alongside the (fairly good) Getting Started Guide that comes in the box. Also... obviously not read yet but it looks like a great (650 page!) manual!
kenporter wrote:Hehe, for me it was the opposite. I started switching over to Live 7 after Cubase 4 came out and was so buggy. Then with Cubase getting more stable I started using it more again once in a while. Now with Live 8 out there is no need for me to to use any other DAW but Live. Are there still some features missing in Live 8? Absolutely! Imho though, there just isn't any other software that is more inspiring than making music in Live, and as long as I can get complete songs done in Live I don't need anything else. Glad you like Cubase 5 though. I think that's what makes this so great, there are enough choices out there to choose what best fits your own workflow.
Yes, it's great that we have several rally great choices. Trust me when I say that after six years the joy of the Ableton workflow can begin to slightly wear off, and the shortcomings/limitations become more frustrating. But I'm sure to keep using Live in the future, and still interested in Max4Live too :wink:

I think that sometimes what is really needed is just a change so that you can refresh your own creative approach. For me, *moving from* (though not entirely) Live to Cubase is equally a breath of fresh air - working in a straight-forward linear direction is kinda new/radical for me :hihi:

Post

Ubiety wrote:That an irrational impression given that the least expensive Mac mini is $599.00. But even so, having that impression yourself is not anything that you would have been obliged to pass on to your students. You simply could have informed them of the available choices that you're aware of -- minus your fears and biases.
Not really at all. I teach school age kids dependant on home computers. They also need various stuff that is Windows only in order to integrate their homework and classroom work. So buying a Mac would definitely be a music-only purchase, not a lifestyle decision. And for a 15-year old, that's basically not going to happen. :shrug:

I'm sure Logic is great and all - ditto Mac computers - just not something my students have or - let's be honest here - need.

Post

Just a quick pointer, seeing as you mentioned VST Connections. If you want to use the Control Room then leave the Outputs disconnected and instead use the outputs of your audio interface used for your monitors as Monitor Bussess in the Control Room.

You can then connect a multiple monitors up to A/B with one click, it gives a seperate volume control from the master fader and a wee mono/stereo button to check mixes.

Greetings from a fellow Tracktioneer and Assimilee.

:)

Post

Cheers :tu: I'll check that out :)

Post

How are you finding the VST Expression feature in Cubase 5? I was dissappointed with the Score/MIDI enhancements in Cubase 4 and went back to Sonar, but it seems they have nailed it this time, especially for sample libraries that make extensive use of keyswitches and CC automation for different instruments without cluttering the piano roll. I'd be curious to try it out sometime, perhaps it would tempt me again.

Post

Not tried that yet (maybe somebody else can give feedback about it) but it is one of the reasons why I was tempted, for sure. One of those features that I anticipate will be very useful in the near future.

Post

Ubiety wrote:
headquest wrote:Buying a Mac + Logic sends the message that Music Tech is something rather exclusive for special people who can afford special computers - just not the message I want to give my students.
That an irrational impression given that the least expensive Mac mini is $599.00.
Why is it irrational when the cheapest PC is cheaper?

Post

captain caveman wrote:
Ubiety wrote:
headquest wrote:Buying a Mac + Logic sends the message that Music Tech is something rather exclusive for special people who can afford special computers - just not the message I want to give my students.
That an irrational impression given that the least expensive Mac mini is $599.00.
Why is it irrational when the cheapest PC is cheaper?

I wouldn't have used Ubiety's rationalization, but...



It IS irrational because according to KVR and the legion of "Anti-Anything Expensive" Tools on the market...


"A bad workman always blames his tools".


I'm a college recruiter and when I'm speaking to high school juniors about college/career choices I tend to tell them what I believe to be the REALITY of what I see when I'm on campus. Often a kid on campus will walk up to me and remind me that he saw he speak in his school auditorium. He'll tell me that his parents did not agree with me ONE BIT when I visited his home and told him exactly what he needs to do if he couldn't afford a Mac let alone really expensive music gear. With all the loans his parents needed to send him to an art school instead of community college...

Yeah most of them probably see the light and realize I was right all along. No specifics necessary.


Anyway...there's no reason to tell your students not to go with Mac or PC...or software instead of hardware...unless you're given them your side of the BLUNT REALITY of what's yet to come for THEIR future. If anything I'd tell Headquest's students, "You don't NEED a Mac to make music at all. It's simply a luxury." I'd have Youtube videos on hand to show how artists are using FL Studio, Live, or LOGIC to make music. I'd do this to show them that yes a bad workman will sometimes blame his tools, but look what THESE WORKERS can accomplish. I'm not saying you need to tell them the truth about everything. Just show them the...I mean "A" reality about choosing production tools.



OTOH, I'd never suggest any of these kids buy Pro Tools Le though. Not unless they were really serious about becomign an engineer.
Remember kids...Everything is impossible until it's actually done.

Post Reply

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”