I realise its probably dead easy (eventually) to figure out. But how exactly...does one go about creating these vfs files from scratch using waveforms?
Help appreciated - thanks
How do you use the vfs creator?
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- KVRAF
- 2696 posts since 19 Apr, 2005 from The City Beneath the Sea
From what I can remember......
The VFS creator works as text based files which need to know the loop start and loop end points....
Again, from what I can remember, that is the only information that it pays attention to....
I hope this helps.....
The VFS creator works as text based files which need to know the loop start and loop end points....
Again, from what I can remember, that is the only information that it pays attention to....
I hope this helps.....
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 613 posts since 17 Dec, 2008 from Liverpool
dnekm wrote:From what I can remember......
The VFS creator works as text based files which need to know the loop start and loop end points....
Again, from what I can remember, that is the only information that it pays attention to....
I hope this helps.....
I get that bit...what i dont have a clue about. Is how exactly do you go about creating the text files. What goes in them? If anyone has a guide for the daft i would be very grateful.
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- KVRist
- 273 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from US
It is possible I have more experience in this than anybody else so let's start with an easy .txt file from Rhino2 > Waves > External. Note that both the txt and wav files reside together here, for now.
Grain Field\Synclav Spect 2
0-127|GrnSpect2F#6.wav|F#6|0|0
Grain Field is a new category in my waves folder. I usually put all my waves for a new bank in one folder by itself so they can be easily found. You could put it in an existing category such as Bass or Guitar or...
Synclav Spect 2 is the name of the new wave as it will appear in Rhino's waveform selection box.
0-127 is the note range. The bottom value must always be 0 and the top value must always be 127. As many splits as you want can be put between these.
GrnSpect2F#6.wav is the full wave name. I always put the root note in the file name so it is easier to track but this is not required.
F#6 is the root not the file will play at. If you change this to F#7 the wave will play an octave lower or change it to F#5 to make it play an octave higher. Of course it could also be transposed inside of Rhino.
0 is fine tuning and can be a + or - value. It is better to fine tune before sampling but having the ability to adjust it is great.
The last 0 is the loop point. This wave was looped and all data outside the loop range was truncated in a editor. You will want a good wave editor for accurate points. One of my earlier editors was always off by a value of 1 causing loop clicks. It has been since replaced.
A waveform with multiple keyboard splits looks like:
Eclectic Analog\Moog 1
0-E3|EA Moog1C3.wav|C3|0|63038
F3-A#3|EA Moog1G3.wav|G3|0|63400
B3-E4|EA Moog1C4.wav|C4|0|65064
F4-A#4|EA Moog1G4.wav|G4|0|66596
B4-E5|EA Moog1C5.wav|C5|0|67769
F5-A#5|EA Moog1G5.wav|G5|0|51886
B5-E6|EA Moog1C6.wav|C6|0|54070
F6-A#6|EA Moog1G6.wav|G6|0|38247
B6-127|EA Moog1C7.wav|C7|0|39063
The split ranges should not overlap or it will cause an error and will not convert while using vfs maker. If the wave is too hot it may not convert so leave a little room.
Once your collection is complete comes the time to convert; this is the easy part. Double click on vfsmaker.exe, click on New VFS, navigate to the Rhino Waves folder (it will need to be there for you to play it through Rhino), enter a name for your new creation (it can be renamed but this will affect any patches made with it) and click Open.
Now simply drag and drop the .txt files to the VFS Maker screen and you will see a folder created. If not, something was not entered correctly or the associated wave file had a glitch.
When finished, you have a new set of waves stored in a nicely compressed format. Remove the now duplicate txt and wav files from the External folder but save them someplace just in case... If you need more assistance, I'll help as much as possible.
Grain Field\Synclav Spect 2
0-127|GrnSpect2F#6.wav|F#6|0|0
Grain Field is a new category in my waves folder. I usually put all my waves for a new bank in one folder by itself so they can be easily found. You could put it in an existing category such as Bass or Guitar or...
Synclav Spect 2 is the name of the new wave as it will appear in Rhino's waveform selection box.
0-127 is the note range. The bottom value must always be 0 and the top value must always be 127. As many splits as you want can be put between these.
GrnSpect2F#6.wav is the full wave name. I always put the root note in the file name so it is easier to track but this is not required.
F#6 is the root not the file will play at. If you change this to F#7 the wave will play an octave lower or change it to F#5 to make it play an octave higher. Of course it could also be transposed inside of Rhino.
0 is fine tuning and can be a + or - value. It is better to fine tune before sampling but having the ability to adjust it is great.
The last 0 is the loop point. This wave was looped and all data outside the loop range was truncated in a editor. You will want a good wave editor for accurate points. One of my earlier editors was always off by a value of 1 causing loop clicks. It has been since replaced.
A waveform with multiple keyboard splits looks like:
Eclectic Analog\Moog 1
0-E3|EA Moog1C3.wav|C3|0|63038
F3-A#3|EA Moog1G3.wav|G3|0|63400
B3-E4|EA Moog1C4.wav|C4|0|65064
F4-A#4|EA Moog1G4.wav|G4|0|66596
B4-E5|EA Moog1C5.wav|C5|0|67769
F5-A#5|EA Moog1G5.wav|G5|0|51886
B5-E6|EA Moog1C6.wav|C6|0|54070
F6-A#6|EA Moog1G6.wav|G6|0|38247
B6-127|EA Moog1C7.wav|C7|0|39063
The split ranges should not overlap or it will cause an error and will not convert while using vfs maker. If the wave is too hot it may not convert so leave a little room.
Once your collection is complete comes the time to convert; this is the easy part. Double click on vfsmaker.exe, click on New VFS, navigate to the Rhino Waves folder (it will need to be there for you to play it through Rhino), enter a name for your new creation (it can be renamed but this will affect any patches made with it) and click Open.
Now simply drag and drop the .txt files to the VFS Maker screen and you will see a folder created. If not, something was not entered correctly or the associated wave file had a glitch.
When finished, you have a new set of waves stored in a nicely compressed format. Remove the now duplicate txt and wav files from the External folder but save them someplace just in case... If you need more assistance, I'll help as much as possible.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 613 posts since 17 Dec, 2008 from Liverpool
Wow. Comprehensive response Daniel - i fully appreciate it. I will study that further during the week when i have more peace and quiet about the place.
Is i possible, by that i mean relatively easy to do this with the minimum of both tools...and hassle? Otherwise i may as well stick to just designing patches as opposed to facilitating their buildidng blocks. It kind of seemed a cool thing to do, to enhance the whole Rhino experience. Which i have to say, is a richly rewarding one.
I only hope the support from you guys carries the project on well into the next decade.
I don't have a dedicated Audio editor per se. Though i have had limited success extracting waveforms out of Audacity to use in Zebra.
Thanks again Daniel for both your time and the 'relatively' black and white explanation.
Regards
Is i possible, by that i mean relatively easy to do this with the minimum of both tools...and hassle? Otherwise i may as well stick to just designing patches as opposed to facilitating their buildidng blocks. It kind of seemed a cool thing to do, to enhance the whole Rhino experience. Which i have to say, is a richly rewarding one.
I only hope the support from you guys carries the project on well into the next decade.
I don't have a dedicated Audio editor per se. Though i have had limited success extracting waveforms out of Audacity to use in Zebra.
Thanks again Daniel for both your time and the 'relatively' black and white explanation.
Regards
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- KVRAF
- 3388 posts since 29 May, 2001 from New York, NY
Yes - and the faster than light response ! Daniel beat me to it 
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- KVRist
- 273 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from US
I was faster than only a snail yesterday (alergies) but still willing to help.
Audacity should work fine. Check out http://www.wavosaur.com for a nice free editor; it works better than some purchased ones.
Is creating your own waves easy? Not the first time, but every time after that is a little easier until you can zip through. Finding good loop points can be the hardest part; the rest is not too bad. I made some blank templates and just copy/paste info into it. Here is one I use for two samples per octave; simply delete what is outside your range and make sure your upper and lower limits are 127 / 0:
Folder Name\Wave Name
0-E3|Wave1.wav|C3|0|0
F3-A#3|.Wave2.wav|G3|0|0
B3-E4|Wave3.wav|C4|0|0
F4-A#4|Wave4.wav|G4|0|0
B4-E5|Wave5.wav|C5|0|0
F5-A#5|Wave6.wav|G5|0|0
B5-E6|.Wave7.wav|C6|0|0
F6-A#6|Wave8.wav|G6|0|0
B6-E7|.Wave9.wav|C7|0|0
F7-A#7|Wave10.wav|G7|0|0
B7-127|Wave11.wav|C8|0|0
Is it worth the effort? Yes. Have fun!
Audacity should work fine. Check out http://www.wavosaur.com for a nice free editor; it works better than some purchased ones.
Is creating your own waves easy? Not the first time, but every time after that is a little easier until you can zip through. Finding good loop points can be the hardest part; the rest is not too bad. I made some blank templates and just copy/paste info into it. Here is one I use for two samples per octave; simply delete what is outside your range and make sure your upper and lower limits are 127 / 0:
Folder Name\Wave Name
0-E3|Wave1.wav|C3|0|0
F3-A#3|.Wave2.wav|G3|0|0
B3-E4|Wave3.wav|C4|0|0
F4-A#4|Wave4.wav|G4|0|0
B4-E5|Wave5.wav|C5|0|0
F5-A#5|Wave6.wav|G5|0|0
B5-E6|.Wave7.wav|C6|0|0
F6-A#6|Wave8.wav|G6|0|0
B6-E7|.Wave9.wav|C7|0|0
F7-A#7|Wave10.wav|G7|0|0
B7-127|Wave11.wav|C8|0|0
Is it worth the effort? Yes. Have fun!
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- KVRAF
- 5666 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
BigTick, are there any plans for making this process more streamlined ?
Rhino 3, perhaps ? Some new WAV import features ?
Rhino 3, perhaps ? Some new WAV import features ?
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- KVRAF
- 3388 posts since 29 May, 2001 from New York, NY
How important is that ? I think the number of users who have actually tried to make their own vfs can be counted on the fingers of one hand. So it's not very high on the priority list.
This said, I agree that sfz compatibility would be cool. And I'm willing to hear your suggestions.
'Tick
This said, I agree that sfz compatibility would be cool. And I'm willing to hear your suggestions.
'Tick
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 613 posts since 17 Dec, 2008 from Liverpool
You guys provided the tools...and the inspiration as a result. Besides, im a bit of a tweaker at heart - plus im bored this week 
In all seriousness, i appreciated Daniels info and have set about immersing myself totally in Wavosaur and discovering many things....not least of which the revelation that i havn't got the slightest clue as to where to begin, what im eventually going to do - and how to get to that point. But, I AM at least having fun along the way!
Viva la Rhino!
Question: In Surge the waveforms have to be truncated to 1024 cycles per instance - i believe?
Is this true for Rhino as well?
Regards
In all seriousness, i appreciated Daniels info and have set about immersing myself totally in Wavosaur and discovering many things....not least of which the revelation that i havn't got the slightest clue as to where to begin, what im eventually going to do - and how to get to that point. But, I AM at least having fun along the way!
Viva la Rhino!
Question: In Surge the waveforms have to be truncated to 1024 cycles per instance - i believe?
Is this true for Rhino as well?
Regards
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- KVRAF
- 3388 posts since 29 May, 2001 from New York, NY
No there is no such limitation in Rhino. But actually, if you want to use single-cycle waveforms, you'd much better off using the additive synthesis engine with the "user-defined" type:
1) Go to the "add" tab, select a slot among the 6 available, then import your single-cycle .wav file. Its harmonic contents will be analyzed and resynthesized. You can then tweak it further with various spectral tools.
2) On your oscillator tab, select "single-cycle / user-defined" to use your new custom additive waveform.
If you do this, you don't need vfs files at all. The analyzed harmonic contents will be saved within the preset.
'Tick
1) Go to the "add" tab, select a slot among the 6 available, then import your single-cycle .wav file. Its harmonic contents will be analyzed and resynthesized. You can then tweak it further with various spectral tools.
2) On your oscillator tab, select "single-cycle / user-defined" to use your new custom additive waveform.
If you do this, you don't need vfs files at all. The analyzed harmonic contents will be saved within the preset.
'Tick
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 613 posts since 17 Dec, 2008 from Liverpool
That sounds reasonable, conservative, constructive, easily achievable productive, not to mention logical.....and above all else
A whole lot more sense than fiddling about with single-cycle waveforms!!
Thanks for the advice BT.
A whole lot more sense than fiddling about with single-cycle waveforms!!
Thanks for the advice BT.
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- KVRAF
- 5666 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
I hear you, but...Big Tick wrote:How important is that ? I think the number of users who have actually tried to make their own vfs can be counted on the fingers of one hand. So it's not very high on the priority list.
This said, I agree that sfz compatibility would be cool. And I'm willing to hear your suggestions.
'Tick
Maybe the reason that number is small is due to the time consuming way vfs files are prepared in the first place?
It's no biggie, I was just wondering. Easy SFZ import would be cool to have, though.
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- KVRAF
- 3002 posts since 24 Nov, 2003 from Heidelberg&Hamburg
My only reason not to do my own files (for example I record everything that's not up the tree at three and will do my lofi own Rhino2 sounds out of the few best of a million of those files...) is that Daniel's banks are such an outstanding addition to Rhino2 that I bought all of them as over the last months. People who do not know the nature&industry bank which is superb-superb, and the eclectic-analog should hurry to Mr. Daniel's website...)
I am very grateful for this thread, as now I understand things a bit better.
I am very grateful for this thread, as now I understand things a bit better.
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- KVRAF
- 3476 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from NE Ohio, USA
sfz support would rock! It really is becoming a universal sample format.Big Tick wrote:This said, I agree that sfz compatibility would be cool. And I'm willing to hear your suggestions.
Looking at the vfs format as a subset of what sfz is capable of, it would potentially be possible to translate straightforward sfz files with a single velocity layer into vfs with a few lines of perl (for example).
Pitfalls I see:
- If your sfz had multiple velocity layers you'd have to make an arbitrary decision. It gets more complicated if you have more velocity layers in the middle (say 32-96) and fewer layers at the extremes (0-31, 97-127).
- If Likewise if the wav file's root note is tuned for the middle of a range rather than the starting note, I don't remember if the sfz file can indicate the root note, or if it's required etc.
Doug
Logic is a pretty flower that smells bad - Spock, in "I, Mudd"
For a good time click http://www.belindabedekovic.com/video_fl_en.htm
For a good time click http://www.belindabedekovic.com/video_fl_en.htm