KVR Audio

fceramic · Post by **fceramic** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:22 am

A huge price and age difference so not really fair, but how do they compare as wavetable monsters?

Concretefx · Post by **Concretefx** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:59 am

I could say, buy Kubik and make me lots of money , but I suppose I better not (where is my sock puppet when a need it )

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:04 am

I own Largo and tried the demo of Kubik some time ago. Both are powerfull wavetable synths but i love the Waldorf sound which Largo nails very good IMO. Kubik maybe has many more features concerning the wavetables but for me that's a bad point since it's quite confusing. Opposing to that most people who ever owned a hardware Waldorf synth should be quite familiar with Largos sound and features. Largos GUI is so good that even newbies should be able to program it after reading the manual (a REAL manual made from paper !!).

With 68 Largo has less wavetables than Kubik but they are mostly based on the Waldorf hardware synths and are very usable.

If you want a wavetablesynth with endless features maybe Kubik is your choice. I still prefer Largo.

rob_lee · Post by **rob_lee** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:06 am

Largo has the best GUI on any synth and that's fact..all well laid out and a lovely colour

Rob

fceramic · Post by **fceramic** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:16 am

Ya Largo's ultra sleek interface is what tempts me the most. Of course I know it will sound awesome (big fan of the Microwave XT), but it's one of those synths I'd like to purchase just because it looks and sounds so rewarding to program.

rob_lee · Post by **rob_lee** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:17 am

It's so easy to program and the Waldorf sound like you say is great and always has been..

Rob

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:32 am

They are both billed as wavetable synths, but beyond that they are quite different in sound and feature-sets.

Long-time Kubik user here (since ver1).

I haven't used Largo, but I own a Waldorf blofeld - which is quite similar, feature wise (has anyone made a direct sound comparison?).

I love to sit-down to tweak and play the blofeld away from the 'puter, and I love it's sound (esp filters). But TBH, the wavetables were a disappointment after Kubik.

The difference is in the way you can create and manipulate the tables - Kubik pisses all over Largo here, and then some.

With Kubik you can create your own custom 64-wave tables by a variety of methods (including wav-file splitting and resynthsis). You also get 16-point envelopes and amazingly customisable LFOs. Together alone, these two allow mindblowing wavetable traverses that Largo/Blofeld can only dream of. The resulting tones are far more interesting than the basic Blofeld tone. Easy to tell if you turn-off all filters and FX - the blofeld magic is really about the filters IMO.

Going further, Kubik allows wavetable sequencing - you can sequence individual waves in the table - which can be composed of ANY waves you want in those 64 slots. Throw-in the wealth of modulation possibilities, filtertypes, FX and you have a seriously deep, rewarding and different instrument (now with 8x oversampling

)

In short, while the blofeld does sound incredible thanks to those filters, Kubik is capable of a far larger pallete of tones. I recommend you spend time with it. It is the most interesting synth I own, and I have more than I need.

Get the Kubik demo and spend time with it. It has a sound like nothing else. Don't miss-out.

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:57 am

Back in the days i had Kubik 3. But this synth has so many features, so couldn't concentrate myself on making music. So powerful it was. Largo has much powerful sound.

fceramic · Post by **fceramic** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:19 pm

What I like about the synths in Reason, which are usually the only synths I use, is the clever design. They are really easy and fast to program, but you can still get some really intricate, complex sounds (mainly because you can route 10 of them together lol).
I can see Kubik being a bit too much for some people, though I have to say the developer really did a nice job for the update, very clean stylish design.
Still undecided though with Kubik's price tag I might as well buy both!

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:32 pm

stimresp wrote:In short, while the blofeld does sound incredible thanks to those filters, Kubik is capable of a far larger pallete of tones. I recommend you spend time with it. It is the most interesting synth I own, and I have more than I need.

Is it just me or are Kubik's filters so much tastier in 2.5? The filter resonance in particular seems much stronger and more musical.

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:38 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
stimresp wrote:In short, while the blofeld does sound incredible thanks to those filters, Kubik is capable of a far larger pallete of tones. I recommend you spend time with it. It is the most interesting synth I own, and I have more than I need.
Is it just me or are Kubik's filters so much tastier in 2.5? The filter resonance in particular seems much stronger and more musical.

I have noticed that activating the filters, leaving them open with zero resonance, still creates a resonant-y sound. I wouldn;t call these filters transparent.

I'm slowly goin through Kubik 2.5 to catch any bugs, etc. Wasn't sure if this was one, but will report it anyway.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:50 pm

I just published a set of 60 PPG style patches for Largo on KVR. I downloaded the Kubik 2.5 demo now and found it has all the PPG wavetables like the Largo has. At least from that point it's interesting for me. Kubik has endless possibilities for tweaking and creating the wavetables and the sound is quite convincing. The downside is the GUI. No clear layout, the colour scheme is difficult to read and Kubik has so many features/menus that you can easily loose the focus on the important points.

For "hardcore-wavetable programmers" a nice synth i have to agree. The amount of preset banks/patches in Kubik is huge. For practical use i like Largo more at the moment. Doesn't mean i will not get Kubik sooner or later since the price is almost a steal compared to Largo.

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:05 pm

Ingonator wrote:I just published a set of 60 PPG style patches for Largo on KVR. I downloaded the Kubik 2.5 demo now and found it has all the PPG wavetables like the Largo has. At least from that point it's interesting for me. Kubik has endless possibilities for tweaking and creating the wavetables and the sound is quite convincing. The downside is the GUI. No clear layout, the colour scheme is difficult to read and Kubik has so many features/menus that you can easily loose the focus on the important points.

For "hardcore-wavetable programmers" a nice synth i have to agree. The amount of preset banks/patches in Kubik is huge. For practical use i like Largo more at the moment. Doesn't mean i will not get Kubik sooner or later since the price is almost a steal compared to Largo.

Jeez man, it's a complex synth. You won't be an expert in ten minutes. The interface is very clear for something with so many features. Give it time for the concepts to sink-in - it's rewarding...

I could do a vid tutorial on basic usage, but I can't figure-out how to record ASIO output in CamStudio. If anyone knows how to do this I will make a tutorial or 10.

Vectorman · Post by **Vectorman** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:31 pm

Kubik had kind of slipped under my radar until the 2.5 update was announced - I just started messing with the demo a few days ago. I owned a Blofeld for a while, so I'm familiar in a general way with Largo's architecture and sound.

Several of Kubik's patches sound very Microwave II-like; there are approximations of several PPG wavetables in Kubik's factory wave set, so I guess that's not surprising. Due to the complex wave envelopes and wave sequencers, there are also sounds that are almost like a Microwave/Absynth hybrid. The amount of modulation resources is impressive: 8 multistage envelopes with adjustable slope between every point, 8 LFO's, 2 wave sequencers (similar to wave sequences in the Korg Wavestation), and 2 general-purpose step sequencers.

Largo, like the Blofeld, is more like a Micro-Q with extra wavetables added. Largo has the Q's VA oscillators, and of course it has the Waldorf filters with those distinctive drive curves (assuming its filters do in fact sound identical to the hardware), which is a compelling point for those who like them. On the wavetable side of things, though, it lacks even the 8-stage wave envelope from the Microwaves. Kubik goes a lot further in offering finely detailed control over wavetable scans.

I'd say Kubik is more of a "wavetable monster" in terms of letting you create your own tables and do more with them (actually, the same could be said of Zebra, which also lets you draw wavetables and has complex envelopes for controlling wave scans). But Largo is a Waldorf, and if you want that specific sound, that may trump other considerations.

BFunKu · Post by **BFunKu** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:52 pm

Terratec Komplexor is way better than Kubik.

Largo VS Kubik 2.5