KVR Audio

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:44 pm

What is the difference?

jopy · Post by **jopy** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:41 am

perspective.

ichijou · Post by **ichijou** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:53 am

you can hum a melody, you need some friends to hum a harmony.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:41 am

melody let me finger her behind the bikesheds.

frederik D · Post by **frederik D** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:54 am

Melody is a sequence of individual musical tones, harmoy is a cobination of simultaneous musical tones (or a sequence of those combinations of simultaneous notes). So indeed: a melody you can sing on your own, bu to create a musical harmony you'll have to find someone or something to accompany you...

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:57 pm

jmeier wrote:perspective.

That's a short but deep answer!

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:00 pm

A person alone can sing a series of notes that outline a triad. To me the effect is "harmonic" (that is, it establishes the tonality just the same as if a choir sang the notes simultaneously).

So doesn't that blow away that whole "vertical versus horizontal" perspective?

djgroovy · Post by **djgroovy** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:42 pm

vurt wrote:melody let me finger her behind the bikesheds.

rofl.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:00 pm

"In homophonic-harmonic music, the essential content is concentrated in one voice, the principal voice, which implies an inherent harmony," Arnold Schoenberg, Fundamentals of Musical Composition. "...the composer should never invent a melody without being conscious of its harmony."

Vurt's answer was better though.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:27 pm

Gamma-UT wrote:"In homophonic-harmonic music, the essential content is concentrated in one voice, the principal voice, which implies an inherent harmony," Arnold Schoenberg, Fundamentals of Musical Composition. "...the composer should never invent a melody without being conscious of its harmony."

Vurt's answer was better though.

I agree with your assessment of Vurt's response. But I am challenged by Herr Schoenberg's statement. What characteristics allow a melody to "imply" or "inhere" harmony? Is it the presence of consonance when you "verticalize" the tones?

Sometimes that's what we are really talking about here, isn't it? When you outline a triad by arpeggiation, it is said to be "harmonic" rather than melodic. But the moment you add a little dissonance in there... OOPS! It's melodic, rather than harmony, or at best, "implying" a harmony like Bach here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony#Historical_rules

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:55 pm

Ogg Vorbis wrote:I agree with your assessment of Vurt's response. But I am challenged by Herr Schoenberg's statement. What characteristics allow a melody to "imply" or "inhere" harmony? Is it the presence of consonance when you "verticalize" the tones?

No, it's the presence of harmonics. Assuming we're not composing with sine waves but reasonably rich timbres, you have at least the fifth popping up quite early in the harmonic series. However, that is probably not all the story...

Ogg Vorbis wrote:Sometimes that's what we are really talking about here, isn't it? When you outline a triad by arpeggiation, it is said to be "harmonic" rather than melodic. But the moment you add a little dissonance in there... OOPS! It's melodic, rather than harmony, or at best, "implying" a harmony like Bach here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony#Historical_rules

...in the Middle Ages, the perfect fourth was considered consonant. Then, in the Renaissance it become dissonant (honest). Then it went back to being consonant again. This doesn't have a lot to do with triads other than to outline how taste and experience shapes how we hear music.

Later on in that chapter (or it might be the one after), Arnie talks about establishing tonality by slinging in a I-V, V-I pairing of motives, or something similar. You don't necessarily need to hear any surrounding harmony to get the idea because our brains are so conditioned to it. There is probably nothing inherent in the sound of the fifth, it's just years of conditioning. It's interesting that in cultures that do not rely so heavily on tonal music, the tritone's not considered dissonant at all.

So, the idea of dissonant notes in a melody 'disrupting' harmony? I'm inclined to argue that that is simply a holdover from some old historical rules that is probably difficult to justify in psycoacoustic terms. But, the effect will differ between people based on their exposure to blues and jazz. I can't prove that, but it's my hunch.

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:00 pm

vurt wrote:melody let me finger her behind the bikesheds.

What a slut!

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:25 pm

TristezaOrange wrote:
vurt wrote:melody let me finger her behind the bikesheds.
What a slut!

Her sister Harmony requires multiple fingerings depending on the inversion.

Hmmm... I can't tell if I am feeling shame or pride having posted that. Maybe a mixture...

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:26 pm

I know vurt mentioned Melody, but I was thinking Melanie.
just some random association -- sexually active girls whose names sounds like Melody

so what about those monks who can sing tritones?

I'm guessing that's a rather fixed harmonic series or their skills surpass physiology.
so those fellows would seem to be able to harmonize a melody

Musicologo · Post by **Musicologo** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:40 pm

But when you sing a melody, can't you have at least dozens of harmonies associated to that same melody? Backgrounds may influence that... Someone classical when I hum an E tune something might say that is harmony of C, and other might say, that is harmony of Fmaj7... for instance... non?

Melody and Harmony