KVR Audio

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:58 am

[edit - haha, NOTION 3 in the title fell foul of the kiddy uppercase screaming detection]

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/4083.html

I'm quite excited about trying this app when the demo appears on the 24th. I'd never even heard of it until SONAR 8.5 came out and this was bundled in with one of the Elite upgrade paths.

I still love using notation, and my current app Overture allows VST usage with clean implementation for dynamics and keyswitches (no horrible mess in Piano Rolls, etc.), you just see the melodies and useful things like "crescendo", "fff", etc. and all the nasty stuff is handled in the background.

I had originally hoped Cubase's updated score editor and VST expression would fill this gap, but I find it rather unpleasant in implementation compared to Overture 4.

Notion looks like it has the best of many features, including a proper mixer, VST support, articulation support, 3rd-party library support and... perhaps of interest non-Finale users, Re-Wire support. So you could still enjoy doing the tweaks and mixing particulars in your app of choice.

Never tried Notion 2, but I'm quite excited about this! Always nice to have another notation app on the scene.

dmacintyre · Post by **dmacintyre** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:53 am

Yes, I'll be trying the demo on this one too. The third party library support with performance mapping pre-programmed looks great.

4tune · Post by **4tune** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:45 pm

The demo is out for this now.

Not overly inquisitive on your details to get it like some others. Just name and email

edit:

http://www.notionmusic.com/support/noti ... ignup.html

downloading now..

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:21 pm

By the way, I notice the IK CSR Hall reverb works in other hosts as well. Dunno if this is intended...

The note entry doesn't seem as nice as Overture (for instance, your cursor can't be a note and an accidental at the same time - you have to drop the note, then select an accidental, then click on the note you just placed... which is a nightmare for auditioning), but with Overture all but dead and the Notion folks very open to Feature Requests, this should hopefully be sorted out soon.

Works nicely with the ARIA player for GPO, all the articulations seem to be fine.

Unfortunately, I'm not using the PLAY edition of EWQLSO (and have no intention of paying to 'upgrade' something that gives me less control than Kontakt)... so I can't really test the EWQLSO support.

The devs are really friendly on the forum though. And the app feels very solid and robust.

4tune · Post by **4tune** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:55 pm

fandango wrote:By the way, I notice the IK CSR Hall reverb works in other hosts as well. Dunno if this is intended...

The note entry doesn't seem as nice as Overture (for instance, your cursor can't be a note and an accidental at the same time - you have to drop the note, then select an accidental, then click on the note you just placed... which is a nightmare for auditioning), but with Overture all but dead and the Notion folks very open to Feature Requests, this should hopefully be sorted out soon.

Yes I've been testing and find the note input a bit slow.

IMO things that would really help this would be

1. Assignable shortcuts
2. A modifier key for a delete tool i.e. Ctrl + left-click
3. Shortcuts for increse note duration and decrease note duration

Like you say also 'one shot,accidentals' that show with notes would be good

All of these I use in Harmony Assistant and allows pretty fast input.

It sounds good that they are open to suggestions as it seems like a nicely designed program. I may try some suggestions on their forum as I could be tempted by this app.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:56 pm

Can someone elaborate a little more on the advantages of rewiring a notation program to a sequencer? What situations would one do this?

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:05 pm

Ogg Vorbis: I guess the number one reason would be if you prefer to compose in a notation environment (some do) but wish to refine the mixing, eq, etc. in another app. Don't get me wrong, Notion's mixer is fine but it is pretty basic (at the moment the inserts just say... "insert" when you add a VST). If you have several Kontakt/PLAY/Aria players in Notion, then you might want to deal with their outputs in an app where you can concentrate just on the audio coming from each channel.

The area where ReWire really fails in this context though, is that the tempo automation is ignored in the slave app... and it's the slave app (Notion) where you'd most likely want to do your tempo adjustments with metronome symbols, accelerando, etc.

I haven't tried using Notion as the master though. However, you can't use Cubase or Sonar as slaves, so I guess that's that idea out of the question. Could use Reaper, I guess, and get the best of Reaper's audio handling and less of it's MIDI handling?

At the moment, I feel Cubase is still the only app out there where notation, composition, friendly VST keyswitching support and envelope-based tempo automation really meet in a satisfying one-size-fits solution.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:10 pm

Wow, I just spent an hour looking at the notion website and I gotta say I'm blown away! The hybrid MIDI/notation thingy kills!

It looks like you can tweak the playback durations without affecting the notation quantize. My estimation of this is that you can do better demos of scores than in Sibelius where you don't have direct access to the MIDI data.

I want to look at some scores and parts that have been created in notion. The website does not emphasize professional scoring, which makes me skeptical about its use for professional arranging.

If I can find some examples of scores and parts to look at, I'll be very interested in this tool. I am sorry I ever made fun of the product's name.

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:20 pm

No worries, "Raving Bum Bandit for the Atari" still sticks in my mind as one of the funniest quotes of recent months.

Ogg Vorbis wrote: It looks like you can tweak the playback durations without affecting the notation quantize. My estimation of this is that you can do better demos of scores than in Sibelius where you don't have direct access to the MIDI data.

This is something I always felt Overture did quite well. By pressing TAB, you got the MIDI data superimposed onto the score and you could edit notes without affecting the score quantise display. You could also manually draw controller data as well. The SequencerStaff in Notion tries to do something similar.

You can't draw CC data in Notion at the moment, but it's apparently "on the list".

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:47 pm

That's freaking sweet! Sibelius users have to export as MIDI, import into the DAW, polish as needed in order to get a convincing performance.

Here's a question....

Sooring to picture. Notion does not support video, so you can rewire to a DAW in order to compose to picture, right?

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:50 pm

Yes, the only thing you'd have to do is make your tempo changes in the ReWire Master DAW. Unless you have a ReWire slave that supports video (which I don't think Reaper does?).

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:15 pm

fandango wrote:Yes, the only thing you'd have to do is make your tempo changes in the ReWire Master DAW. Unless you have a ReWire slave that supports video (which I don't think Reaper does?).

Okay so sample workflow...

- Director provides me with Quicktime file
- I create a project in logic and import quicktime file
- Set up markers in Logic for cues using the spotting notes, lock the markers
- Set up logic as rewire host and Raving Bum Bandit as the slave
- Compose in notation view in RBB (Notion 3)
- Handle tempo and tempo changes in logic

Sound pretty close?

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:26 pm

Ogg Vorbis wrote: - Set up logic as rewire host and Raving Bum Bandit as the slave

Ogg Vorbis wrote:- Compose in notation view in RBB (Notion 3)
- Handle tempo and tempo changes in logic

Sound pretty close?

Yep, that sounds about right!

Though it's a shame that there isn't a host that could run as slave which supports video as that would be a better way round.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:37 pm

fandango wrote: Yep, that sounds about right!

Though it's a shame that there isn't a host that could run as slave which supports video as that would be a better way round.

Nice pic...

Video ought to go on that requested feature list... Downloading demo soon! Thanks.

4tune · Post by **4tune** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:48 am

..and the Notion folks very open to Feature Requests..

Ok I've taken this statement and run with it requesting that they turn notion into a VST..

Somehow I think it may be a bit ambitious but I'd buy it in a second if they got this working

edit: for those registered on the Notion forum:

http://forum.notionmusic.com/viewtopic. ... 42&start=0