Change in bassline, how is 2nd bass progression related to 1st?

[breakmixer]

Right here's my biggest music problem when working without vocals, i.e. doing instrumental....

I have a bassline created for my main groove, but now I want to introduce a new bassline(i.e. same sound different progression for say a chorus style part), how does the 2nd bassline have to be related to the 1st to sound right and be a natural sounding change, I really need to suss this to be able to move on?

I.e. what is the relationship between the two different bassline progressions?

I only play by ear, but understand C D E F G A B and sharps and flats, if this comes into it!

[Foxwolfen]

Well, that depends, do you want an harmonic or dissonant progression? Each will have their own needs.

Cheers
Shad

[breakmixer]

Well, that depends, do you want an harmonic or dissonant progression? Each will have their own needs.

Cheers
Shad

Thanks but, it just all seems jibberish to me, lamans terms is what I need, I just need to know how to follow on from the first part with a natural sounding flow, I can do it but it's more by ear/fluke, without knowing why it works or why it doesn't work, plain english without ott musical jargon would help in any answers at the minute, I am considering piano lessons after seeing a local add though, maybe that'll help?

[Foxwolfen]

It seems like gibberish to most of us until some level of understanding comes. Music theory is perhaps one of the most difficult things to learn. While we all have an ear for music, getting inside the guts of it takes time and commitment.

I would suggest getting some beginning piano theory booklets. They are usually available at your local music store for about 10 to 15 bucks. While you may not need to play the simple songs etc, they might be a good way to educate you on what is happening on the basic theory level and then you can start building from there.

Grab level one and level two (adult).

In the meantime, play by ear, post up your songs and those who have a strong grasp of the theory can help you identify what is going on.

Otherwise it is nearly impossible to help you as the Wiki articles are about as plain English as can be had, and I have no way to determine what your level of understanding is. If have specific questions, those can be answered, but a broad statement like "teach me everything" would take far too much work.

The reason I suggest the booklets and not lessons is you can work at your own pace and target specific areas, where a music teacher will likely have a preset program they need to follow (for their own sanity, they are people too).

[jancivil]

Well, that depends, do you want an harmonic or dissonant progression? Each will have their own needs.

Cheers
Shad

Thanks but, it just all seems jibberish to me, lamans terms is what I need, I just need to know how to follow on from the first part with a natural sounding flow, I can do it but it's more by ear/fluke, without knowing why it works or why it doesn't work, plain english without - musical jargon

If you learn to fix your car, do you not learn what the parts are called?
If you learn to write words, do you not learn what the parts of speech are called, and how sentences are structured?
That goes for anything you do, if you're at all interested in how it works and a workable result.

How is music different than this?

[thecontrolcentre]

plain english without ott musical jargon

You should learn some basic "musical jargon", or just stick to playing by ear. There is some very useful info in the links Foxwolfen supplied ...

[jancivil]

I remember when I was 14 and trying to write my first songs. I knew some chords and sang some things by ear and didn't know much, though I did read music. When I went to fix the song, and write down the guitar part and the tune, so I'd have it for later in case I forget something, guess what? I asked other girls I knew who'd had some lessons how it works, and to look over what I'd managed to write down and tell me what's not right.

That's basically what you're doing here, on the music theory board even. The language you use when you do this, includes musical terms. If you aren't interested enough in music to do this, what's the aim here? You want to gratify your ego by having some music to show, at the same time you are asking people how to do it, with a refusal to speak the lingo?

[breakmixer]

It seems like gibberish to most of us until some level of understanding comes. Music theory is perhaps one of the most difficult things to learn. While we all have an ear for music, getting inside the guts of it takes time and commitment.

I would suggest getting some beginning piano theory booklets. They are usually available at your local music store for about 10 to 15 bucks. While you may not need to play the simple songs etc, they might be a good way to educate you on what is happening on the basic theory level and then you can start building from there.

Grab level one and level two (adult).

In the meantime, play by ear, post up your songs and those who have a strong grasp of the theory can help you identify what is going on.

Otherwise it is nearly impossible to help you as the Wiki articles are about as plain English as can be had, and I have no way to determine what your level of understanding is. If have specific questions, those can be answered, but a broad statement like "teach me everything" would take far too much work.

The reason I suggest the booklets and not lessons is you can work at your own pace and target specific areas, where a music teacher will likely have a preset program they need to follow (for their own sanity, they are people too).

I've actually got a book on learning piano and a dvd to watch, but thought I could get away with doing it all by ear, but I'm hitting walls, cheers, will take the book to work and read it at break times!

[breakmixer]

I remember when I was 14 and trying to write my first songs. I knew some chords and sang some things by ear and didn't know much, though I did read music. When I went to fix the song, and write down the guitar part and the tune, so I'd have it for later in case I forget something, guess what? I asked other girls I knew who'd had some lessons how it works, and to look over what I'd managed to write down and tell me what's not right.

That's basically what you're doing here, on the music theory board even. The language you use when you do this, includes musical terms. If you aren't interested enough in music to do this, what's the aim here? You want to gratify your ego by having some music to show, at the same time you are asking people how to do it, with a refusal to speak the lingo?

I am interested but never been a very good studier, now it's more down to time etc! I though I could do it by ear alone, which is ok for a while but now I realise I'm standing still musically and need to find out more, because my music isn't their at all, I've got the feel for rhythm, when to hit notes etc and how long to hold them, but getting out of that loop to the next bit is what's doing me in(I'm just never happy with the results of what I do, not proffesional sounding enough too), I either feel it's to mellow and musical or too hard and not musical enough, not getting the vibe I really want(a funky hard edged electronic style(808's/Breaks etc), with musicality too(Urban/RNB/Funk etc)),

So in answer to your comments I have also just bought 'music theory for computer musicians', it gets mentioned alot, so will try that...

[thecontrolcentre]

not getting the vibe I really want(a funky hard edged electronic style(808's/Breaks etc), with musicality too(Urban/RNB/Funk etc))

Hmmm ... maybe you should just write what you feel rather than trying to attain a certain (somebody else's) "style".

I have also just bought 'music theory for computer musicians', it gets mentioned a lot, so will try that...

Good move, and good luck.

[tehlord]

Hmmm ... maybe you should just write what you feel rather than trying to attain a certain (somebody else's) "style".

Indeed


That's what I do.


And i'm a trained classical pianist

[gambaytheunspoken]

Lots of advice on youtube for writing basslines. Or just take a bassline that you like from a popular song, reproduce it, analyze it, figure out why it works and why you like it. My suggestion, Horace Silver's "Song for my Father." So good, Steely Dan stole it and turned it into a massive hit; "Ricky Don't Lose that Number." Old stuff, I know. But if that's not your cup of tea, choose something by Dre, he writes pretty good basslines,too, or even MJ, "Billy Jean." I know you stipulated that you wanted things stated in simple terms, no music lingo, but to figure this out and that it sticks, you will definitely need a piano roll so that the image of the lines stick with you.

Ciao!

[psenior]

On another thread, I referred a poster with a similar question to carolkaye.com for learning more about composing good basslines. However, if you don't know music theory so well, you will struggle with anything that Carol Kaye has to teach you.

Honestly, music theory is very simple and easy. If you know the first seven letters of the alphabet (or eight for our German readers) and can count to 13, you can understand it all. It's people who make music theory complicated, because if it was presented simply, they couldn't sell you all these expensive books, videos, college degrees, etc. In the musical world, there are many great musicians, but few great teachers.

[robogone]

Honestly, music theory is very simple and easy. If you know the first seven letters of the alphabet (or eight for our German readers) and can count to 13, you can understand it all. It's people who make music theory complicated, because if it was presented simply, they couldn't sell you all these expensive books, videos, college degrees, etc. In the musical world, there are many great musicians, but few great teachers.

That is so true. It's not really as hard as people make out and it seems to be the same small group of musical snobs that try to tell everyone that unless you learn everything there is to know about musical theory that your compositions will be valueless.

As with learning to play a musical instrument, you can improve your musical theory as you go along - it doesn't stop you playing just because your knowledge is incomplete.

[breakmixer]

On another thread, I referred a poster with a similar question to carolkaye.com for learning more about composing good basslines. However, if you don't know music theory so well, you will struggle with anything that Carol Kaye has to teach you.

Honestly, music theory is very simple and easy. If you know the first seven letters of the alphabet (or eight for our German readers) and can count to 13, you can understand it all. It's people who make music theory complicated, because if it was presented simply, they couldn't sell you all these expensive books, videos, college degrees, etc. In the musical world, there are many great musicians, but few great teachers.

Yes I started watching my keyboards lessonds dvd last night all seemed straight forward, i.e. c d e f g a b, then the black notes in between being either the sharps or flats(i.e. d sharp = b flat), he then goes on to show the c major chord, c e & g, but then it got confusing, instead of the notes having gaps on the white keys in the major chords, he started using the black keys, i was tired and it confused me(maybe the intervals are still the same, half step or full step), so I'm going back to that bit tonight and start over until i get each chapter sunk in, then will hopefully get my new book through the post so will read it a t-breaks or bed time and really try and absorb it.

I had the same issues with cubase, but i read the ignite book and it all sunk in and i actually fully understood the book, a year or two ago that was jibberish to me also, so thanks all for your advices!