Relative key confusion.

[aquar]

Hi all,
wondering if anyone could answer a question thats been bugging me.

I've got this group of chords.
C, Dm, Em, F, G Am B°
from which i get this.
I ii iii IV V vi vii°
Then.
tonic chord,supertonic chord, mediant chord etc

But say I want to start my progression in the relative key Am.
i, ii°, III, iv, v, VI, VII
Will the tonic chord now become the i and the supertonic ii° etc?
Can I re-assign like this?
My gut feeling is yes but I am not 100% sure.
A few sites I've visited have said there's no such thing as a minor v dominant chord.
confusion

And can anyone help or explain how to produce the diminished character as shown below in a standard document?. (the only way I could produce it was to paste it from another document.)

°
cheers in advance.

[Ogg Vorbis]

Hi all,
wondering if anyone could answer a question thats been bugging me.

I've got this group of chords.
C, Dm, Em, F, G Am B°
from which i get this.
I ii iii IV V vi vii°
Then.
tonic chord,supertonic chord, mediant chord etc

But say I want to start my progression in the relative key Am.
i, ii°, III, iv, v, VI, VII
Will the tonic chord now become the i and the supertonic ii° etc?
Can I re-assign like this?
My gut feeling is yes but I am not 100% sure.
A few sites I've visited have said there's no such thing as a minor v dominant chord.
confusion

And can anyone help or explain how to produce the diminished character as shown below in a standard document?. (the only way I could produce it was to paste it from another document.)

°
cheers in advance.

Yes your tonic chord in A minor will be i and the supertonic in A minor will be ii°, etc.

These degrees actually scale (they're movable) as you look at any new tonal center. So in B minor your tonic (i) chord will now be a triad composed of B, D, and F#. Your supertonic (ii°) harmony will be C#, E and G.

The statement that "there's no such thing as a minor (v) dominant" is a little over-simplified to me. It's true that in minor keys, the dominant is major in order to create the strong voiceleading back to the tonic.

But that's not always the case. In a lot of EDM or modal jazz, pop, etc., you will see a minor dominant chord. There is a lot of use of dorian, natural minor, and other modes in use today.

A lot of people come to the conclusion that there's no need to study traditional four-part harmonization and "classical" approaches because the new music is a new language.

I don't see it that way. It's all part of the same language and although it's not necessary to study the 350 years of European harmony before grasping trance and house, it can help see similarities where everything previously only looked like differences.

In other words, keep going! Regarding the little diminished thing, I have no flippin idea how you do that in ASCII text or whatever.

[aquar]

Much appreciated ogg
Thanks for clearing the matter up for me.

If you ever write a theory book I'll be in the line.
You definitely have a flair for explaining things in lamens terms.

Now all I need to know is how to produce the diminished character and
I am all set to conquer the world

[tonAP]

Now all I need to know is how to produce the diminished character and
I am all set to conquer the world

It should be next to @: the key is à(#), so shift + that key = °

[icelizarrd]

I'm pretty sure that's the degree sign like you'd use for 20° C, for example. If you're on Windows, hold alt and type 0176 on the keypad. If you're on a Mac, use shift-option-8 (or so a website tells me. I don't have a Mac to verify myself).

[Ogg Vorbis]

I'm pretty sure that's the degree sign like you'd use for 20° C, for example. If you're on Windows, hold alt and type 0176 on the keypad. If you're on a Mac, use shift-option-8 (or so a website tells me. I don't have a Mac to verify myself).

°°°°°°°°°°°° Yup! That's it on Mac

[aquar]

I'm pretty sure that's the degree sign like you'd use for 20° C, for example. If you're on Windows, hold alt and type 0176 on the keypad. If you're on a Mac, use shift-option-8 (or so a website tells me. I don't have a Mac to verify myself).

Yep confirmed and working on a laptop (with a keypad) in windows vista using english uk keyboard settings.
Thanks very much icelizard
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

[icelizarrd]

Welcome

[Aroused by JarJar]

Nice reply from Ogg as usual!

There are some interesting things about a minor dominant. If you are in minor and use the minor dominant, then you are really playing the Aeolian mode.

Another thing is that the minor dominant, specifically when used v-I (g minor to C major for example) is actually the most "natural" usage, as far as being directly derived from the harmonic partials. If you play the third of the v, Bb in this case, so that it is "blue", which is about a third of half-tone flat of equal tempered, as you would in jazz or blues, and blue the E down a hair, then your v-I is coming straight out of the harmonic partials. C is found in the 1st, 2nd,4th and 8th partials, E the fifth partial, G the third and sixth, Bb the seventh and D the ninth. You can hear this very nicely with a steep resonant filter sweep on, say, a sawtooth.

(If you blue the notes in the right places, like the #4 a quarter-tone up from 4, the Lydian Dominant of jazz can be found in the first 15 harmonic partials, voila!)(edit- you'd have to blue the 6 down about quarter-tone to get the 13th partial, but anyway a major six is found in the relation between the 5th and 3rd partials)