Mapping different controls on different VSTs/Racks to same CC

[bullo]

Hi there. I'm trying Cantabile out and I can't find a way to do the following. Please correct me if I'm doing something wrong:

For example, I have 2 racks. Rack 1 has a Delay VST. Rack 2 has a Chorus VST. I wanna switch between sounds in a song, so I have 2 sub-sessions: one with Rack 1 muted/bypassed/inactive and other with rack 2 muted/bypassed/inactive.

I have a MIDI floor pedal and I program two switches to send a message to switch "Next Sub-Session" and "Previous Sub-session". For both switches, I have the same CC assigned to the Expression pedal.

In Sub-Session1 1 mapped the EXP pedal to control "Delay Amount".
In Sub-Session1 2 mapped the EXP pedal to control "Detune Amount".

Now the problem I have is that when Im in sub-session1, whenever I move the EXP pedal, it moves both the "Delay Amount" and "Detune Amount" controls.
It should not move "Detune Amount", because that VST is in RACK2 and when in sub-session1, rack2 is muted/bypassed/inactive. I also tried setting the midi input to NONE for the muted rack, to the midi doesnt affect. IT still moves both controls.

This is a problem because when I switch from sub-session1 to sub-session2 I want the setup to be exactly as I saved it.

Any way to solve this?

Thank you very much!

Danny

[TiUser]

I guess the controller assignments are not subsession related...

If you have "performer" edition you can try the midi routing table as these entries can be activated/deactivated per subsession.

Route your footpedal controller via two midi routings to your racks. Then add a midi CC filter to remove the activity you do not need. Finally activate just the routing in the subsession where you need it and restore the subsession.

Maybe this works out your problem...?

[bullo]

Thank you!

I tried to read the manual and be as specific as I could. I didnt see anywhere saying "the controller Assignments are not per sub-session".

but...if in a sub-session X I have a rack that is muted and/bypassed/inactive, why the plug-ins contained in that rack still receive MIDI data? It should not!

Also..do you think I'm wrongly organizing myself?

Think about a guitar player with a MIDI pedal board.
A song can have 1 or 20 sounds, so the easiest is to program 2 switches to send a "Next Sub Session" and "Previuos Sub Session" message instead of having 10 switches sending "Select Sub-sesison1"...."Select sub-sesion 10".

The same for the Expression pedal. the best is to have have both presets (of "the Next Sub Session" and "Previuos Sub Session" switches) to send the same CC, and in the program assign the EXP pedal to different controls in different scenes/sounds. Do you agree?

Thank you again!

Danny Bullo

[bullo]

thank you all

if you are interested here i have the answer:

it was easiest than you said.


http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/blog/article-183.html


the bad thing is that that is now well documented.

thank you all

[TiUser]

Also..do you think I'm wrongly organizing myself?

Not at all... just tried to offer an idea how to work around the problem...

Some things in Cantabile are conceptually really technical and not intuitive to use... I guess there is some stuff around subsessions that could be improved or could be tweaked to be used easier.

I also think midi routing is somewhat confusing and should be cleaned up... I know there have been already tested some changes which have not been released yet for backwards compatibility.

[TiUser]

http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/blog/article-183.html

I could not access this link... can you please check it? I am curious what's told there...

[Edit:] oops... now by quoting the link I could click it...

I slowly start to remember this... I've to bookmark that one...

[bullo]

Hi..so you have access right?

That is an example of something not being intuitive at all. Basically the user can activate or deactivate a routing by checking/unchecking the boxes and that is saved in the sub-session.

Another things that is not intuitive:

if you have one rack with, for example, NI guitar rig with patch X and you save a sub session. Then you have another sub session with the same plug-in but with another patch. In some occasions the patch doesnt change and the user has to specify what to save in the sub session by checking save band, etc.

Anyway..im still testing the program and overall I like it.
I downloaded a demo of Forte 2. It seems complicated, I dont get the work flow, etc.

some say it works better, but I doubt.


Another question: I have a midi guitar. In POLY mode, every string sends its own channel.
Can I have one rack with 6 synths and set every synth to respond to a single channel, or I need to spread them across 6 Racks?

Thank you!

Danny

[TiUser]

...there are several settings with subsessions that work alike - by checking/unchecking...

Concerning sub session behavior control - this can be a real painkiller! Some plugins don't use single patches - you need to load the entire bank (which is indeed just on patch) instead and you can get that via "subsession behavior - load entire bank". Other plugins don't need that so one can turn it off.

I've checked out forte lately again... I don't know much about forte but Cantabile is far easier to get working in the first place - no reboot and restart... I also believe forte is more focused on keyboard players.

Concerning your poly guitar - both your suggestions should be manageable - you just need to put the midi filters in the right place... There is a channel select midi filter, just put this in each synth slot (not rack) to assign the string channel and finally activate the midi through icon in each slot.

You should also consider spreading synths over racks - at least if these plugins consume some cpu, because only racks can be processed in parallel in Cantabile.

Hope this helps.

[bullo]

thank you again. I will try that. If i use cantabile for live playing, I would like to have it as easy as possible.

I think that the "subsession behavior - load entire bank" thing is what happens with NI Guitar rig. That being a "Big and heavy " plug-in, it makes sense it need to load the entire bank. So I guess it is better to leave "subsession behavior - load entire bank" off when possible.

Thanks again!

[TiUser]

"load entire bank" is only needed for plugins that can not load single vst patches (*.fxp).

Many synths or effects provide a bank of fxp (stored in a fxb) to choose from. You can identify these plugins when you get more than one entry in Cantabiles plugin patch selector.

But some plugins do not have such a selection, maybe because they have internal sound browsers... then the only thing Cantabile can do to recall the plugin settings is via the total bank.

It has nothing to do with the "heavyness" of a plugin...