7/8 Timing Composition Tips?

[kajiotaku]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?

[Aloysius]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?

Check out OddGrooves. http://www.oddgrooves.com/

[Jafo]

Wow, that Q covers a lot of ground. (Makes it a good'un, I guess!)

For fitting loops and such in, you ought to be able to set your host to something other than 4/4. That's a good place to start if you use loops. (I never could, but that's just my particular damage. More power to you who can!)

For composing or playing, mentally break up the 7 beats into sub-groups which add up to 7 -- maybe 3+2+2, but 2+3+2 or others are also possible. Just make sure that each beat lasts as long as any other; when you get started, 3+2+2 tends to become a triplet followed by two doubles, which you'd get in 3/8. It helps to have a drum hit or harmonic stab on the beginning of each grouping. This really isn't all that different from what we do in 4/4 with a kick and a snare (kick-snare-kick-snare).

(Or you can just play in 4/4 and drop the last 8th, similar to what the Beatles did in "All You Need Is Love" and Led Zeppelin did in "The Ocean." That also works.)

If you really want to get esoteric and impress the academic types, you can have contrasting melodies that emphasize different beats and play them together. In 6/8 you hear 3+3 vs. 2+2+2 all the time, but we can do it one better! Try 3+2+2 vs. 2+4+1 vs. 1+3+3 for another. Nice and chaotic, but also intellectually rewarding. (But rarely financially, alas, which may explain why academic musicians tend to resent us so much.)

[jens]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing

Why, in the lord's name, if I may ask?

If you accidentally compose something that has a certain odd time-signature, then fine - but doing that on purpose, just for the sake of it - and without feeling it - must be in my not so humble opinion amongst the most retarted things to do.

If you feel it, then chances are it will sound natural, because it came naturally to you - but if not then it won't.

[kbaccki]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?

You mean you're not comfortable with the timing? If so, then you definately need to get comfortable with the timing before you can try to to utilize it. Otherwise you'll struggle, not that you won't be able to use it effectively.

Start by simply counting 7 at some reasonable BPM... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7... You'll start to get used to the missing beat and also used to the "backwards feel" of every other group of 7. Then count 8th notes relative to quarter notes: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 ... ("+" pronounced "and").

Next, I would get a basic drum machine thing that can handle arbitrary time sigs and program in some basic 7/8 beats, like this:

Code: Select all

    
          1 + 2 + 3 + 4 |1 + 2 + 3 + 4
hihat     x x x x x x x |x x x x x x x  [...]
kick      x       x     |x       x    
snare         x       x |    x       x

Keep kick and snare rooted on 2 and 4, and play around with accents, e.g.:

Code: Select all

    
          1e+a2e+a3e+a4e|1e+a2e+a3e+a4e
hihat     x x x x x x x |x x x x x x x  [...]
kick      x  x       x x|x  x       x x
snare         x       x |    x       x

The notes falling on "e" ("ee") and "a" ("ah") above are 16th notes, so the offset is intentional.

[kajiotaku]

I think the grouping part and the drum machine part really helped me wrap my head around it. I never thought of grouping it... Also: I well check out oddgrooves.com right now.

Thanks! :D

[Ogg Vorbis]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing

Why, in the lord's name, if I may ask?

If you accidentally compose something that has a certain odd time-signature, then fine - but doing that on purpose, just for the sake of it - and without feeling it - must be in my not so humble opinion amongst the most retarted things to do.

If you feel it, then chances are it will sound natural, because it came naturally to you - but if not then it won't.

Kind of like saying, "I want to speak in a distinct east Tokyo accent. What does it sound like?"

[kbaccki]

I think the grouping part and the drum machine part really helped me wrap my head around it. I never thought of grouping it... Also: I well check out oddgrooves.com right now.

Thanks!

When you think you've mastered the feel... load this up and see how long you can count 7:

[HTBoogie]

I say cut the op some slack. One might think that some here would be agast if a guy asked for help for something other than with a I IV V progression and a snare snap on the 2 & 4.

To the op, best advice is to listen and count the beat of odd tempo music. Off the top of my head look at some Zep and Rush. Much prog metal, Dream Theater for instance uses different time signatures.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

nothing wrong with intentionally choosing to write in another t/sig.....it really opens things up....composing in 3's, 5's , 7's , 9's and 11's...7's especially have that great wrap-around flow..once you fell it, that 8th beat is so cumbersome to hang around for....so rigid....the 'weckl' track above is a great example

i find, these days, that 4's, 8's etc are too laboured and naturally cut and compound my sigs that flow naturally to me...it's only when i try and jam these with others who haven't been exposed to the beauty, that i realise that for most people, this is not 'natural' at all

try messing around with the emphasis 4/8+3/8, then 3/8+4/8, in alternating bars

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Not 7/8 but still a good listen:

[matt42]

Sorry if this is too basic. But what helped me compose in 7/8 was realising that the main pulse of the beat falls on 1, 3, 5 and 7. @Jens why not try new things? It may be forced at first, but before long you'll be humming a new tune in your head only to realise you're in 7/8 just because it felt right

[Sampleconstruct]

I think 7/8 rocks and is not an "odd" time signature at all. Western music is so restricted by the constant 4/4 thing, even 3/4 seems odd to some people. That's the burden of european "art" music which still dominates popular music.
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/seven-ways

[kajiotaku]

...I just hurr durr'd pretty bad. I've been trying to learn 8/7. I put it in wrong. I: Yeah, this seems a lot easier. Also:

1 3 5 7: I will remember this.

[Nystul]

Sorry if this is too basic. But what helped me compose in 7/8 was realising that the main pulse of the beat falls on 1, 3, 5 and 7.

"Money" kind of has that feel. But most songs I've heard or played in 7 did not. A lot of times it is some combination of 3/8 and 4/8, possibly switching back and forth as to which part of the measure is the group of 3. A lot of times a song which has measures in 7 will not be entirely in 7 but will switch into other meters as well, since the 7 itself has a very shifting feel to it.