KVR Audio

nhlt · Post by **nhlt** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:54 pm

hello im new and been reading your great forum and wanted to ask this
question .

some say that you should learn modes or scale's either by the intervals or patterns which one is the best way to learn ?

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:15 pm

nhlt wrote:hello im new and been reading your great forum and wanted to ask this
question .

some say that you should learn modes or scale's either by the intervals or patterns which one is the best way to learn ?

Why "or"? Why not both? Or all?

nhlt · Post by **nhlt** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:27 pm

well i thought there might be a preferred way of learning them by
the more experienced players here .

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:39 pm

nhlt wrote:well i thought there might be a preferred way of learning them by
the more experienced players here .

Well, I am one person with one vote but I vote "both." The more ways I can learn to look at the musical language the better.

When I was in college I had to take biology. I had a two hour lab once or twice a week. We looked at hand drawn illustrations of cells with call-outs labeling different parts like cytoplasm, nucleaus, mitocondria and other "organelles." Looking at the sample through the microscope, I didn't see a damn thing that looked like the diagrams. I changed the focus and saw some cell walls and organelle walls and moved the focus again and saw the interior parts. So I asked the T.A. which focal position was right.

"Both focal positions are correct. It depends on what you want to see."

Music theory is sorta like that.

nhlt · Post by **nhlt** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:49 pm

cool, i see (no pun intended) hope you passed that class sound like you
was having trouble .

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:00 pm

nhlt wrote:cool, i see (no pun intended) hope you passed that class sound like you
was having trouble .

The worst class was a music class called "Advanced Form and Analysis." We learned various names of forms such as "rounded binary," or "continuous rounded binary" or "through-composed" or "extended interrupted ternary," etc.

Then we were given a piece to analyze by Haydn for example. Guess what?? It could be seen many different ways! However, in this class if you didn't come up with the answer that the prof. had in mind, you got it wrong. I think it was the only music class that I got a "C" in. I never saw things the "right way."

nhlt · Post by **nhlt** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:16 pm

Ogg Vorbis wrote:
nhlt wrote:cool, i see (no pun intended) hope you passed that class sound like you
was having trouble .
"Advanced Form and Analysis." We learned various names of forms such as "rounded binary," or "continuous rounded binary" or "through-composed" or "extended interrupted ternary," etc.

T

sounds more like computer programming than music theory .

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:33 pm

nhlt wrote:
sounds more like computer programming than than music theory .

I'm not sure if the only difference really would be that in computer programming things have to have a formal systematic definition.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:17 pm

nhlt wrote:hello im new and been reading your great forum and wanted to ask this
question .

some say that you should learn modes or scale's either by the intervals or patterns which one is the best way to learn ?

I don't know what you mean by 'patterns' here. My only guess is that it would be a function of its intervals.

A mode, if you want to capture the character of, is intervals as they relate to each other [in melodic usage] but primarily as they refer to a tonic. MODE = SOME INTERVALS.

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:32 pm

DELETED

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:47 pm

michi_mak wrote:i'd say pattern refers to the distinct order of semi and wholetones - so i'd vote learn the modes by their pattern of semi and wholetones ...

that would be - wait for it - intervals. but an extremely limited way to look at them. EG: C lydian - the character tone is the F#. How does it relate to "C", is the PRIMARY thing about C lydian. How it moves down to the third, E. How it relates to B, etc. That's what's important. It isn't just a scale. If someone wants to memorize them as scales, sure, whatever. Scales don't add up to character without some exploration of what's inside.

let's edit! woot.

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:53 pm

DELETED

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:03 pm

I was thinking "pattern" was the note names and fingering pattern as you play it on the fretboard or other instrument. Wait, where is that OP???

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:35 pm

Ogg Vorbis wrote:
nhlt wrote:cool, i see (no pun intended) hope you passed that class sound like you
was having trouble .
The worst class was a music class called "Advanced Form and Analysis." We learned various names of forms such as "rounded binary," or "continuous rounded binary" or "through-composed" or "extended interrupted ternary," etc.

Then we were given a piece to analyze by Haydn for example. Guess what?? It could be seen many different ways! However, in this class if you didn't come up with the answer that the prof. had in mind, you got it wrong. I think it was the only music class that I got a "C" in. I never saw things the "right way."

How awful. I was in music skool for two whole years. After I had completed 'harmony' aka 'theory' - honors curriculum, HEY, so I got two years for the price of one, I was rilly effing bored at CCM. The next thing might have been some class with an asshat like this. I don't know. What did happen was I lobbied for some grad level shit. They allowed me FORM UND ANALYSIS dant da da DAHHHH, and what happened was I was left quite alone (ie, in the dark) and made to hand in a paper. So, I had to fake it. Bach Suite, the one with the Jethro Tull Bouree, since I had to play for jury and I figured the Germans on the jury would go for that better than the Mexican shit I liked to play at that time. Fvcking Deutsche Grammaphon artists La Salle Quartet dant da da DAHHHH!. GACK what a nerve wracking time for a rock n' roll loser to be subjected to.

The next year I actually signed up for a KOMPOSITION dant da da DAHHHH!!!! elektive, and I could tell from one interview with Teach that he was very partickular about what's supposed to happing with teh twelve-tone row, for our little teenage dodekaphonies to be deemed Korrekt, so I dropped that one so as not to sully my GPA. I found the idea of being graded on a kompo by some hippie with a degree was... some nausea at this point.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:14 am

jancivil wrote: one interview with Teach that he was very partickular about what's supposed to happing with teh twelve-tone row...

Bad memories there too. I never internalized the whole tone row thing. I would have my little 12 tone matrix filled out on nice graph paper and went about the assignment of creating music with this stuff somehow.

Twelve tone music was like learning to smoke cigars...someone says, "well...inhale...BUT DON'T INHALE! Okay now just let it waft around in your tonsils for a while and let the smoke out like a chimney in a Swiss village in winter. Ah, you are getting it!"

Uh, you mean I'm doing it right? It might LOOK right but it doesn't feel musical. It feels like I am just bullshitting us BOTH...