Can you confirm me this progression?

[Musicologo]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14207055/Daniela.mid

IF i'm not mistaken this cue is:

Dm7 / G7 / Dm7 / G7 /
Cm7+ / Cm7 / Am7(b5) / Cm9 /
Bm7(b5)/ Gm7/ Bm7(b5)/ Gm7 /
A7 / A5+ / D4


Now, what are those functions???

i7 - IV7 - i7 - IV7
vii7? - vii7 - v7? - vii9?
(Gm) iii - i7 - iii7 - i7
(Dm) V7 - I

I kinda get lost in the middle on those XXth century songs...

In classical music I understand the functional harmony perfectly, but we get to a point when everything is blurry...

I don't understand what a "IV7" means (subdominant anyway)?
or all the second line? is it a modulation?
Or even the third line, does it really go to Gm? and the Bm7(b5) is what? A dominant?

Please help me understanding the FUNCTIONS, more thant the chords in themselves...

[jancivil]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14207055/Daniela.mid

IF i'm not mistaken this cue is:

Dm7 / G7 / Dm7 / G7 /
Cm7+ / Cm7 / Am7(b5) / Cm9 /
Bm7(b5)/ Gm7/ Bm7(b5)/ Gm7 /
A7 / A5+ / D4

Now, what are those functions???

Or even the third line, does it really go to Gm? and the Bm7(b5) is what? A dominant?

Please help me understanding the FUNCTIONS, more than the chords in themselves...

Ok, you're lucky that when I click on a midi file, Logic opens it and assigns it to reasonable patches.

the second line is a new key, modulation occurred off that G7, V of C. So that's a new area, which is going to also give way. You could call that i. maj 7, min7, maj 6, 5 in the top line.

this Bø7 Gm business I would relate to the turnaround to D minor.
this is ambiguous.

The thing to look for, to find function is to somewhat work backwards from goals/turnarounds.
here's how I think of that: the Bø7 is ii of A (borrowed from minor), and the Gm7 is iv of D; giving you two levels in anticipation of the turnaround. ii of V and iv of i.

My reasoning is, the half diminished chord (m7 b5) is perfectly normal for a ii chord. For a iii chord, for a vi chord, it isn't really, it doesn't function like that.
You aren't going to have to chart it by roman numbers for a player anyway, so, 'viø7 - iv'? Forget about it, it's Ambiguatown, Jake. Those min7 b5 jobs function as ii chords in jazz, and this is jazz-informed.
ii is a subdominant function; iii and vi are called mediants, but they're close to the tonic in function. Flat five isn't it.


hey, do the world a favor and don't be putting + signs after their indicated function.
'+7' is kind of a non-sequitur anyway. that's a minor/maj 7 chord. + after a figure, who knows what it is. I looked at and at first wondered if you meant +5.
+ signals 'augmented'. There isn't any augmented seventh. Diminished, minor, major 7. Jazz people would use a triangle, you could do ^, 'Cm^7' is normal. You have augmented seconds, fourths, fifths, sixths even. Augment a seventh and you have an octave. Augment a third and it's a fourth, same thing.

oh, as per your 'is the Bm7b5 a dominant?', for somebody blowing over these changes it might be; I might just be thinking E7 there and run a diminished thing based in that.
Harmonic jazz likes to think in circles and make them chromatic by b5 subs.

[No_Use]

jancivil, I'm not the OP but I appreciate your knowfull and comprehensive replies on these topics.
Always something to learn for me.

Thank you.

[jancivil]

thanks for saying so.


that Bø7... make a ninth from that, B D F A C# and note the similarity with A+5 7 9

try that Bø7 over a strong, low E in the bass to see my reasoning on the function.

I think of that Gm as a Bb. so that's a bit of bVI in D minor also.
(I just came up with a killer substitution for it, kind of too subtle to type about atm, voice leading stuff)

also in terms of functions and working from goals back to a function, that first i - IV is like a ii - V in C.
more than one level of thought in 20th century harmony

[Musicologo]

Jancivil, thanks you very, very much!! These are the things why I think this forum is worth for! You have totally blown me away with this explanation and gave me a lot of insights on the cue.

Because one thing is to play by ear and come up with something "reasonably pretty", other thing is understanding and sophisticatin it!

So, aside from the E in the bass with the B07, can you reveal me the "fantastic" substitution you had for that Gm7? If you want to tell me more about voice leading fantastic. At your own leasure time. I'm not in a hurry and I just want to learn the max. possible.

Other question: When I build up the progression for the refrain and make a variant out of it can you give me suggestions - for instance where would you put a tritonic sub in here? or even transition chords in between this 2 measured pace (perhaps some measures can take 2 chords instead of only one).

Finally, after all if this is in C, should I change the score for a non-accidental key signature or should I leave it with B flat? I thought "oficcially" this would be in D minor.

Many thanks with all help you can provide me

[jancivil]

I would only say the one bit is in C minor. the turnaround is in the more important key, it is functional, only it screws around with it.

I didn't look at the piano roll much, I base my 'function' on listening, then playing over it by ear - a look-forward approach, you identify the turnaround first.

I found after putting that E under the thing to verify my noodlings... well, I got creative with it so it exceeds this song's harmonic rhythm some, let alone that style, but just for edumacashumal porpoises (this addresses the b5 sub principle also):

over a lower E, w. 'right hand': B (D) F A ;
then that E an 8ve higher, w. 'right hand': Bb D A (Em7 b5 11) ;
then: bass Bb, w. 'right hand': G D E A ;
(imitating that chromatic descending thing in the first line) I took the D down to C#, then C;
and took that Bb down to A: A7>A7+5. Bass A, 'right hand': G C# E>F

that chromatic move down gives A7sus/Bb, A7/Bb, then C7/Bb with a minimum of movement, that was the cool substitution discovery.

that's why I like a contrapuntal approach to harmony rather than worrying about what roman number/chord.
identify goals and work towards them in voice leading. I'm a melody player so that's how I think, lines rather than blocks. My chord names there aren't so important, just an analysis after the fact.

you could calle those chords all kinds of things. 'A7/Bb' is a dim. 7 chord. 'A7sus/Bb' may as well be that Em7b5 11. For jazz practice the names are a convenient sign of where to grab the idea. The thing to do is find the commonality, not the difference I think.

[jancivil]

Other question: When I build up the progression for the refrain and make a variant out of it can you give me suggestions - for instance where would you put a tritonic sub in here? or even transition chords in between this 2 measured pace (perhaps some measures can take 2 chords instead of only one).

My idea above should generate some ideas, it does extend the harmonic rhythm or pace.

Finally, after all if this is in C, should I change the score for a non-accidental key signature or should I leave it with B flat?

I would just have one flat as if D minor for a key sig. That's your turnaround, that's the important thing. I wouldn't change it in the middle, for one shift, C isn't a solid center really. The first line sounds like i-IV but your ear took the IV7 as a V7 to C because of the structure, tension of B-F. You've probably heard somebody do just that.

it's time to change a key sig when using the last one gives you too many accidentals now, or obviously, when the new key center has been firmly established. Neither is true for C minor here.

[Musicologo]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14207055/Daniela2.mid

Have fun!
Minor changes based on your advices. Had to comply with the rhythm and pace and tried to adapt the walking bass so it keeps on steps... I guess it works fine now