question about composing

[jeatkunedo]

Hi,

I wanted to ask you guys how do you compose your music ? Do you always have an idea(melody) in you head first or its all down to experimentation?

I have never played any instrument before and I am trying to learn the piano now.. in the meantime thou I also try to write some melodies and chord progressions. The thing is I dont hear any music in my head, I mean I dont have any clear ideas floating its just banging the keys for me. Is that mean I have to learn the theory first and have some massive time spend on practice before I start hearing some melodies or getting any clear ideas ?

Thanks for your time and I am sorry if my question is stupid.

[rollasoc]

I generally write on guitar.

My process is to try and come up with an interesting chord progression first, that I enjoy playing. I rarely start with a melody.

This often makes it very hard for me later to come up with a decent (vocal) melody.
Which is frustrating and one of the reasons it can take years to finish a song. (hence having about 20+ on the go at the moment).

I rarely if ever make up music in my head.

When composing on keyboards. (of which I am not very proficient at all), I just noodle, until I find something that I can repeatedly play, or I record it one bar at a time. (very time consuming).

Hope that helps.

[tapper mike]

If you are working on a chord progression and rhythm then you are working out of your head.


I used to soley start with the progression and strum along till something came out. It's to the point now where if I'm playing chords I can't stop myself from singing or humming a melody. I used to think that playing other peoples melodies would be a distraction from writing my own. The truth is the more you experience melody the more you gain a sense of perspective over timing and meter. A melody is a rhythm that can be sung but it's not a lockstep rhythm. Listen to how people speak (not sing) will give you a sense of thier rhythm. Humans speak with pulses of their own all of them not just gaelic limbric's or iambic pentameter

While it is important to learn scale patterns, rhythm patterns licks and more. It's also important to learn metre and phrasing. Since guitarists are predisposed to using both hands to play a rhythm then they need to feel comfortable singing along. It doesn't have to be a great lyric (words help over humming although mumbling along works find as well) I learned in the pre internet days. Back then we had no drum machines, all the drummers I knew were already in bands. If I wanted a rhythm I recorded it to a tape deck.

Having a drum machine(even a virtual one) is a godsend. Find a usable generic rhythm and keep it going at moderate tempo even when your not playing your instrument. Always play with a beat behind you especially in your earlier years. You'll generally find yourself unbusying your mind from holding down the rhythm (though you should maintain the beat) and giving space for the sound to grow. Then sing your arse off even if you hate singing. You could actually sing my entire post. The more you sing the more you'll recognize patterns in your phrases developing (and the fact it's important to breath.
Vocal patterns aren't just rhythmic they have melodic/harmonic attributes as well. They idea behind melody is that lyrics repeat and vary much like motific development.

[Jbravo]

personally, I just play around with chords and sounds, then usually stumble across something which I find interesting. Then the melodies and changes seem to suggest themselves from then on. I doubt there are many people who have all the ideas mapped out in their heads before they touch an instrument, so don't feel like it's something you have to achieve before being a proper composer

[tapper mike]

I carry starting points around in my head. I'm haunted by them. I know key and chord by the time the first note falls down. The only thing I struggle with is finding an appropriate drum pattern/tempo to map what I'm playing.

On occasions I stumble on ideas when I'm messing around but it's usually a directed activity. I'll be studying a pattern I just can't grasp exactly and go,,,wait this sounds better then I follow that tangent as long as I can. It's actually a pain in the arse because when I'm done with my idea/interpertaion I have to go back and learn the original pattern all over again, My stuff I'll forget if I don't record it and live with it playing every day. Stock patterns I like to remember because they reveal themselves to me when I need them.

Guitar patterns are not like piano patterns. If I were playing a piano style on a piano I'd prolly remember it better. Instead I'm trying to emulate them as much as possible on a ztar which is niether piano nor guitar nor stick when playing tapped/poly.

[wrench45us]

I have generally started with chord progressions -- generally stealing a section of someone else's and thanks to voice leading I begin to hear a melody embedded in the progression -- and it's usually not the same as the song I borrowed the progression from.

where this process falters is where a lot of 'songwriters' falter -- we seem to be habituated in certain ways so many projects end up sounding very similar, which is why it is good to play and listen to a lot of 'examples' to expand one's possibilities.
this is really where outstanding songwriters excel in the variety of what they come up with

[jancivil]

Hi,

I wanted to ask you guys how do you compose your music ? Do you always have an idea(melody) in you head first or its all down to experimentation?

I have never played any instrument before and I am trying to learn the piano now.. in the meantime thou I also try to write some melodies and chord progressions. The thing is I dont hear any music in my head, I mean I dont have any clear ideas floating its just banging the keys for me. Is that mean I have to learn the theory first and have some massive time spend on practice before I start hearing some melodies or getting any clear ideas ?

Thanks for your time and I am sorry if my question is stupid.

lacking experience playing melodies that precede you would tend to give the result of not hearing your own melodies in your head. You won't create them in that vacuum. Theory won't replace that practice. You can have before you all the theory information in the known universe and know nothing about what to do.

I don't really write; I improvise lines and combine them with other lines as I hear them. This project started with nothing real concrete but there were ideas from the last three projects I wanted to work with some more. I remember these things and they play back in my head, so it isn't so much a conscious effort.

I don't think in terms of any chord progression. Often I start with an evolving thing I made in Kore, Absynth basis, as the background a bit like a painting; the colors in the sonority serve to inform decisions for the rest of the palette. Then instrumental choices are like casting actors for the players in the foreground; 'Soprano Sax' has a backstory, 'Cello' has a backstory in music and I write parts from their 'voice' and work contrapuntally.

I am inspired by the sound, I don't work very abstractly. I used to as I had no way to hear most of it, putting symbols on a piece of paper and trying to imagine every sound. I don't actually have the kind of training that's supposed to get you there so I found it insufficient and abandoned a lot of things, I have better ideas from the audible in any case.

I have started with lyrics and the first thing to do was find the best pulse for them to scan against. I don't have any formulas or set ways to proceed, except I do like that starting from a wash of color and describing detail as I find it in the 'noise', chaos into order or something...

[tapper mike]

I have generally started with chord progressions -- generally stealing a section of someone else's and thanks to voice leading I begin to hear a melody embedded in the progression -- and it's usually not the same as the song I borrowed the progression from.

where this process falters is where a lot of 'songwriters' falter -- we seem to be habituated in certain ways so many projects end up sounding very similar, which is why it is good to play and listen to a lot of 'examples' to expand one's possibilities.
this is really where outstanding songwriters excel in the variety of what they come up with

Past a certain point you can't escape yourself. You repeat what works for you and shed what doesn't. I tried playing metal for several years, It didn't work for me and then it didn't work for me and then it didn't work for me. I could cover a number of tunes just fine but when it came to writing my own stuff it came out extremely cheesy. I always had a happy-go-lucky bounce. Sure I'm still trying out "new to me" ideas but I'm also comfortable in my own skin. The only problem I have these days is with lyrics. I haven't written a lyric in 30 years now. I write instrumentals with lyrical melodic quality. Which is much harder when you don't have lyrics to go with them.

[jeatkunedo]

wow.. I don't know what to say. I was starting to believe that the music is not for me and I have to pick another hobby. I love it thou and even all that frustration, I keep coming back and don't want to give up.

Probably my way of thinking is destructive and self-sabotaging, cause I am always thinking that other people "got that special mind full with ideas".

I'll try to spend more time practicing than thinking

Thank's a lot guys for sharing your ways of composing. Really helpful and inspiring.

[Xenobt]

Hey, don't give up, JK! Music is something you can do your whole life if you choose, and never learn it all!

As a songwriter/composer, many of my ideas start with a fresh set of sounds. When you get a new instrument or set of patches, make sure to keep a recorder of some kind running as you step thru them.

I've gotten the core ideas for three or four songs or melodies from a new library or presets, AND it helps justify buying new toys!

Also, making something FOR someone can be an incredible inspiration. Since I started making music for my loved ones, I've created a double album over the last five years. Anniversaries, birthdays, graduations, even memorial music can be a powerful gift from the heart that only you can give.

KVR/esoundz: Xenobt

[vurt]

wow.. I don't know what to say. I was starting to believe that the music is not for me and I have to pick another hobby. I love it thou and even all that frustration, I keep coming back and don't want to give up.

Probably my way of thinking is destructive and self-sabotaging, cause I am always thinking that other people "got that special mind full with ideas".

I'll try to spend more time practicing than thinking

Thank's a lot guys for sharing your ways of composing. Really helpful and inspiring.

the frustration is part of the fun
if everything was easy it wouldnt be worthwhile, or something.

[Musicologo]

Well usually I hear melodies in my head. Then I go the keyboard and take them out and start harmonizing them. Usually with plain triads. Only after that first phase I start trowing 7's and 9's or even -3rds on the bottom of the basic chords.

Other times I just improvise on the piano something and then I like a chord or a progression and I try to sing along with them and boom, another melody coming out with a chord.

Only when I have those two pieces together (melody + basic harmony) generally I start imagining the counter-melodies and other material, namely the bass line. And what it was a brick becames a building.

I usually compose everything for piano, guitar or piano/guitar + voice. Only after that is done I imagine something to other kinds of ensembles.

[ariston]

There are four main approaches for me:

- Chord-up: Riffing until I get something that strikes a chord with me (ha!)

- Melody-up: I'll take a walk, or a shower, and start to improvise a melody by singing gibberish out loud

- Rhythm-up: as the name says, start with a good beat and take it from there. If you take this to the extreme, you'll construct the entire rhythmic framework before even touching a keyboard/guitar/ukulele/etc.

- Word-up: write a lyric, or take a poem, or a newspaper article, or whatever, and find a melody to go with it.

The chord-up way used to be my main thing, but I tend to overcomplicate things that way. I'll never be satisfied with a chord progression until there are at least three key changes, four dissonances, and five "Bb min #7 b9"-type chords in there. Good for instrumentals sometimes, usually bad for songs. If you're going for a song, I'd suggest using approaches 2-4. It's always a good idea if your ideas come from your stomach, rather than your head.

Keith Richards once said that composing is like sticking your antenna out of the window and hoping to pick up something good. If you think of yourself as a conduit of music, rather than a maker of music, you'll make better music (and free yourself from the pressure of trying to be "good" into the bargain). And whatever you do, never ever try to be "original". Always leads to bad progressive music.

Hope that makes sense; keep at it, it's really worth it!

[jancivil]

you can't escape yourself. You repeat what works for you and shed what doesn't.

I try not to repeat myself. I have done things I never imagined I was going to do or even if I could do, letting the sound take me to a place and just desiring an effect bad enough to git it. I seek to escape myself as much as I can. There is a lot to learn and sticking to what I know is not gwyne take me to the new place.

[Hink]

wow.. I don't know what to say. I was starting to believe that the music is not for me and I have to pick another hobby. I love it thou and even all that frustration, I keep coming back and don't want to give up.

Probably my way of thinking is destructive and self-sabotaging, cause I am always thinking that other people "got that special mind full with ideas".

I'll try to spend more time practicing than thinking

Thank's a lot guys for sharing your ways of composing. Really helpful and inspiring.

the frustration is part of the fun
if everything was easy it wouldnt be worthwhile, or something.

see, I didn't say +1