KVR Audio

vmachine · Post by **vmachine** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:40 pm

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vmachine · Post by **vmachine** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:42 pm

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dkmooers · Post by **dkmooers** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:42 pm

Excellent, excellent review. You convinced me to give this keyboard a shot. Thanks for the best review around for this keyboard!

Evan · Post by **Evan** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:23 am

I have an older Roland (Edirol) controller, the PCR-300. It is very good apart from the small screen, which has been improved in the current models.

What I do not like at all, is the Roland joystick controller for pitch/modulation. I want a real wheel to control modulation/expression, as it was meant to be controlled. I would avoid any future Roland controller just because of that detail. (Korg pulls a similar trick as well)

vmachine · Post by **vmachine** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:58 am

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Cordelia · Post by **Cordelia** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:40 am

I have one of the Cakewalk branded models. I've had it for quite a while, I've been playing it like crazy and it's holding up perfectly. I'm really pleased with it.

Good review.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:14 am

Evan wrote:
What I do not like at all, is the Roland joystick controller for pitch/modulation. I want a real wheel to control modulation/expression, as it was meant to be controlled. I would avoid any future Roland controller just because of that detail. (Korg pulls a similar trick as well)

joystick controllers make it possible for some very expressive performance gestures not possible with two wheels. With keyboards like this controller, you can always re-assign the modulation to any of the faders and have the same functionality as a mod wheel.

I want a real wheel to control modulation/expression, as it was meant to be controlled.

Nothing "was meant to be controlled" in a specific way. The two mod wheels were just one design of many used back in the 70s. There was also a horizontal lever as used in Oberheim OB-1, or two vertical levers as used in the OBX series. Arp used buttons, Roland used a pitch stick (originally without the forward modulation motion). Etc.

The modulation wheels are far from perfect, and we need to be open to new designs. To my mind the combined pitch/mod stick is one of the better designs so far, certainly much better than the Moog style wheels. And the reason is what you desire as well: better modulation and expression possibilities. Try applying a - 2 semitone pitch bend while applying some modulation with those mod wheels. It's impossible. Or if you are into some cool Dubstep effects, try sweeping the pitch wheel down an octave, while at the same time applying the wobble via the mod wheel. Again, it's impossible, while a joystick makes it a child's play to execute.

I wouldn't be without a combined pitch/mod stick, and hope that they will never be phased out as I'd surely miss them. However, the trend may be already going towards mod wheels, as Novation, another company which has supported joysticks, has abandoned them in their latest controller ( I forget the name). A real shame.

vmachine · Post by **vmachine** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:59 pm

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EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:05 pm

Too bad Roland's joystick is crippled by one direction. See Korg for good joystick controllers.

vmachine · Post by **vmachine** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:44 pm

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EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:53 pm

Once you try Korg's joystick, it's crippled alright.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:08 pm

Korg's stick is great as well, (but Roland's implementation is far from crippled). The more choice of simultaneous control the better. I'd go even further than the Korg implementation and have a downwards motions as well, simply push the whole joystick down for another control axis.

When it comes to pitch sticks, both Roland's and Korg pale in comparison to Clavia's wooden stick. It's the best design there is, in my opinion, perhaps only second to a good ribbon controller or the Continuum board.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:10 pm

The stick is ok IMHO. I like the rebound (so I can get wobbly guitar whammy effects - but I can get that on some pitch wheels too, like on Andromeda or Voyager, or DSI synths). But where Clavia gets it massively wrong is that you cannot set the amount of pitch bend for each axis separately. That's a complete no go for me, as I use +2/-12 extremely often.

Re: crippled. I'm not saying that the design is crippled (although, in a way, you could consider it like that). I'm saying that TO ME, it is extremely crippling not to have the downward motion there.

BTW, remember the ribbon on Korg Prophecy? XZ, AND you could rotate it up-down!

vmachine · Post by **vmachine** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:41 pm

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himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:06 pm

EvilDragon wrote: That's a complete no go for me, as I use +2/-12 extremely often.

Agree with you there. I also use exactly the same settings (minus an octave, plus 2 semis). In this regard, the Clavia stick is compromised, but I just love it for natural vibrato. It's just excellent for this.

EvilDragon wrote: BTW, remember the ribbon on Korg Prophecy? XZ, AND you could rotate it up-down!

I do. Great respect to Korg for trying to introduce something new, but at the same time I felt dissapointment with the way they had designed. They had obviously spent some time thinking about a new approach, but didn't think long enough, as placing the ribbon 'bender' below the wheels is awkward. Having it above would be much more efficient.

The problem is that these type of controllers are designed in 'chunks': here is the pitch wheel, here is the mod wheel, here is a ribbon bendy thingy...etc. Instead all of these ought to be designed as one unit, where I could access each controller with one hand simultaneously!

With the Prophecy design, there was also a problem with one of the buttons which was placed out of the way of your fingers, yet one which was essential for use with the ribbon - can't remember exactly what it was, but i do remember that the SOS reviewer also had criticised this design.

I think every keyboard controller should have a ribbon controller on it though. That's why I added one on my re-design of the A-500.

Definitely, but there is room for improvement as to where that ribbon is placed. Certainly having it below the mod stick is not the optimal position for me. Placing the ribbon above the stick would be much more natural, as then I could access it much more quickly if my hand was already on the mod stick. My fingers would be in closer proximity to it. In fact, it would be possible to use both at the same time with some dexterity.

Not enough thought is given to these designs. We have all manner of alternative controllers, faders, touch sensitive drum pads, but the old pitch+mod wheel is left off the designer's easel.