KVR Audio

neueliteratur · Post by **neueliteratur** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:15 am

Hello,

I went to a gig, and the pianist was playing really cool lines but his rythmic imprecision made sitting there frustrating. It was horrifying in the same way a very hot chick who smells bad would.

Now I've gotten all paranoid and I've been thinking "what if I'm like that when I play the piano?!".

Please share the best exercises that you know that allow you to develop a good sense of rythmn. Thanks.

Nystul · Post by **Nystul** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:26 am

It depends because there are different types of rhythm problems. Sometimes people mess up rhythms or timing not because they are bad at that but because of something else (trying to remember what to play next, struggling with technique, looking for the right note, getting nervous). Clapping and counting are good tools for the basics. Clap and count with other people's music, and with metronome. Practice subdividing the beat into 2, 3, or 4 equal parts (1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and etc.) Practice your keyboard parts with and without metronome. Record and listen to them and try to recognize any rhythm problems.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:41 am

Sometimes it's poor timing as a result of poor timing and other times it's a form of personal expression as in rubato
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo_rubato

For those with just bad timing that is not rubato or a form of personal expression.

Here is the killer about using drum machines as opposed to metronomes when developing timing. Drum machines rob one of developing a sense of self in the mix. Bad timing is often hidden as a result. Keeping pace with a metronome allows you to hear you and your timing. It's also quite essential if you wish to develop a real as opposed to a fake swing.

Timing on a computer is... digital. Timing ona human with good timing is arched. A really good player (any instrument) can control the flow of slightly behind the beat (to create tension) On the beat or slightly after the beat to introduce "swagger" and do it consistently.

An example of someone who plays behind the beat in a consistent fashion is .... Keith Richards of the rolling stones.

The truth of the matter is. Yes playing with a metronome will increase your accuracy however it's not much help when you play in a band especially if you have a drummer with bad timing. And There will be times for better or worse when your timing is off no matter how hard you try to make it right.

The master of meter who bends it to his will rather then the other way round is Bill Evans

That being said I'll return to an earlier concept which is who you play with affects your meter. The more you play in one group the tighter you will be in time with that group. You can take the same song/arrangement and have an equally proficent group only to derive an entirely different sense of meter.
It's not just jazz or blues either.

When playing in a band it's both imperative to keep up and not step on anyone. It's not always the singer that leads the band nor the drummer.

One thing that I find actually hinders (though I do it) is to concetrate on a small section rather the entire piece. If you can "float" thru an entire piece slowly you have a better chance of retaining the entire song rather then the parts you like. Slow and smooth actually takes less time to learn/master and come up to speed then fast and choppy,

stevesg · Post by **stevesg** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:25 am

both posters provide excellent advice

another approach if you read music:

1. metronome
2. Rhythmical Articulation by Pasquale Bona (pub by G. Schirmer)

s.

shanecgriffo · Post by **shanecgriffo** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:22 am

bought a great dvd on amazon regarding this "victor wooten- groove workshop"
great for any musician not just bass.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:33 pm

I loved his work with the flectones.

What I found amusing is when he explored techniques/ideas he wasn't fully aquainted with his timing went way off kilter. Sorry I can't find the vid right now.

I could never play even slightly like wooten He's got that huge wide thumb.

Not that I'm a keyboard player these days. But there was a lesson primarily aimed at keyboard players in "Rock School" The BBC series from the 80's where they had various tips on achieving smooth scaling for keyboard players.

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:41 pm

A very simple piece of advice: practice a percussion instrument. Use some bongos, a cajon, what have you - don't overdo it, play up to a half an hour each day, and stick to simple rhythms. I'm talkin' a four-four boom-chack-boom-chack. Try to resist the urge to embellish the rhythm, this exercise is not about complexity, it's about timing.

You can use a metronome to get started, but try to do without as soon as you feel comfortable.

shanecgriffo · Post by **shanecgriffo** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:59 pm

yes ariston, i have some morrocan drums, percussion etc around the place
I find a few sessions on them gives my rhythm a good kick along..
even tapping a drum app on my iphone whilst on the bus gets me in the swing of it if i've got to go play music somewhere.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:14 pm

I am a pianist who is performing with a trio. I practice with a metronome and record myself and listen.

AMAZING how you learn when you listen to yourself when you're not playing! I notice all these little rhythmic glitches and uneven lines and inconsistent left hand accents, etc.

Then with this awareness, it's time to go back and record myself again and see if I can clean some of that stuff up. Little by little I am getting more crisp and even. But for me, it helps to get that awareness. And recording myself is the means to that awareness.

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:30 pm

shanecgriffo wrote:yes ariston, i have some morrocan drums, percussion etc around the place
I find a few sessions on them gives my rhythm a good kick along..
even tapping a drum app on my iphone whilst on the bus gets me in the swing of it if i've got to go play music somewhere.

I practice my finger percussion on my daily commute to work on the train... drives my fellow passengers nuts, I'm sure.

andiw · Post by **andiw** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:57 pm

Go to Youtube and search for: "Victor Wooten korg"

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:22 am

Two things that percussion doesn't teach a pianist is spider fingers and thumb tuck. I listend to shredder keys players all the time and they always like to "hang the note" when transitioning to a new position. Guitar shredders do the same thing with sweeps / arpeggios. They find that the arp doesn't end right on the metre so they let the note hang while adjusting for a new position or waiting for the measure/ division to align itself.

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:28 am

tapper mike wrote:Two things that percussion doesn't teach a pianist is spider fingers and thumb tuck. I listend to shredder keys players all the time and they always like to "hang the note" when transitioning to a new position. Guitar shredders do the same thing with sweeps / arpeggios. They find that the arp doesn't end right on the metre so they let the note hang while adjusting for a new position or waiting for the measure/ division to align itself.

From the Urban dictionary:

1. Thumb-Tuck

The Thumb-Tuck is how men conceal erections by putting their hands in their pockets, with their thumb around their member.

I think that's going to be the title of my next tune.

Seriously, you're right, but that's a question of using the right technique, rather than having a "sense" of rhythm. Having small fingers (for my size) and relatively stubby thumbs, this was always a frustrating point in playing the piano for me. Until I saw James Levine in a documentary, who proved beyond any doubt that there were ways around this. His fat sausage fingers pranced on the keys like a new-born fawn, and there was no way in hell he could have gotten his thick thumbs in between the black keys.

Another suggestion about practising your sense of rhythm is: record yourself playing a percussion instrument, don't quantise, then overdub with another perc track. You will have to accustom yourself to the ebb and flow of your own imprecise playing, and that's almost as good as playing with others.

Aroused by JarJar · Post by **Aroused by JarJar** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:06 am

I chastise little elvis to the warm analog ticking of a cuckoo clock. This way I get lots of practice, and my polka rhythm is fierce.

Seriously, practice with other people, unlike little elvis, cannot be beat.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:17 am

that has to be the ultimate KVR quotable.

I second the get some percussion, play along with records. once you're away from the records, if you're like me when I was a kid, you'll tend to rush. then woodshed with the damned metronome. but get away from it ASAHP.

Real music doesn't watch clocks. A groovy time has give and take, push and pull, it breathes.

I was in classical music for a couple years, a lot of people only ever played scales vs the metronome or aped somebody and watched a person wave their arms to tell them what time it is, and couldn't play rhythm if their life depended on it.

Good exercises for being rythmically precise