Mac users, need your opinion please.

[debra1rlo]

So, it's definitely time to shop for a new computer as my 6 year old MacBook finally died this weekend. Oh well, made a lot of music on it and am looking forward to the new system. sort of know what I want (or more appropriately, I have a couple/three choices I can afford) and I'd like any input that would help me narrow it down...


My issues/needs/requirements/etc...

- As I am a diehard Logic user, I will be staying on the Mac side. Should be able to spend about $1000 from potential tax return money. I have so much invested in time and projects, so PLEASE don't suggest a PC, it's just not an option for me anymore. And please, let's not have a platform war. If I was more handy, I'd build a freaking PC and make that work but I'm not, I can't, so I won't.

- Currently just upgraded to Snow Leopard and have a good system backup saved.

- Recently, a technician warned me to stay away from Lion for the time being as it's pretty new... should I heed this warning?

- The OS will shape my decision. I figure I can afford the Mac mini server. The entry level iMac is also an option, though I'm not sure it's worth the extra $$ at this point. Both are Lion and I am told can't be loaded with the previous OS.

- I can also get a refurb Mac Pro tower, quad 2.0 + 3 yr warranty for about $100 less than the Mini server and can load Snow Leopard on it. Also, I currently have a firewire interface (Tascam FW-1804) with no immediate plans to upgrade it. I've heard the Mac Pro towers are better equipped to handle the extra heat a firewire interface can generate, which is somewhat of a consideration. I'm not against upgrading in the future and as this interface I have is discontinued it will likely be a necessity down the line.

- Not totally deadset against Lion yet, but am wondering what software in my setup will be affected:

I have Logic Express 8, EZ drummer, idrum, steven slate drums, imposcar, mtron, BFD eco, Komplete Classics (Pro 53, B4, Elektrik & akoustik Piano) guitar Rig 3 + 4, PSP Nitro, Nomad Liquid bundle, Amplitube 2, T Racks EQ, RP Delay, kikaxxe, TC M30 reverb, Scanned Synth 2, and more that I can't remember now, plus just about all the free plugs that are out there, though only TAL stuff and Drum Core FREE are the ones that get into my projects the most.

Let's see, also have Adobe CS2 currently loaded and CS3 upgrade that I hadn't loaded yet. I'd like these, but they're not as crucial since this will be primarily my music computer first, email/net second, and then work.



OK, so, your thoughts? Would love to hear from anyone who has upgraded to Lion already, good or bad. May not be able to able reply right away given I only have a working computer at work right now (a 7 year old G5, lol) but your opinions are appreciated, thanks!

[quixotic]

I've got a mac mini server, I run Logic, and heaps of plugins. I don't have everything you have in your list but what I do have seems to be working fine. You may have issues with CS3. Check the adobe forums. CS5 seems to be ok.

Firewire interface is working well. Though I did need to convert it from 400 to 800 (did that by daisy chaining to a HD that had both).

And yep, you cannot get Snow Leopard to work on the mini. No matter what you do. I've tried. When I initially got this system two months ago, I was trying to copy over my old SL system. It was a no go. I even tried formatting the drive and sticking in a SL install disk. If you get the mini server, you will also not be able to use the non-server version of Lion either.

Honestly though, once I got past trying to get SL on the mini, I found Lion to be a better experience. The few glitchy things I had in SL were gone, and all my audio apps seem to function well.

[fmr]

If you are going to buy a new system, you will get the Lion OS (no option, AFAIK). But if you have a full retail installer DVD of SL, you should be able to install it in the majority of the machines (as long as there weren't firmware updates that made them incompatible, which may be the case in some).

Logic will work OK in Lion. The vast majority of plug-ins are already updated to be compatible, or will be in the short term, but be prepared to pay extra for some upgrades.

I second the guess regarding Adobe CS. You'll probably be forced to get an upgrade for that (I think the current version is CS5, and CS6 is coming).

If you are balancing between a refurbished Mac Pro or a Mac Mini, my option would be the Mac Pro anytime. Mac Book Pros are overpriced and underpowered, IMO. Load the Mac Pro with at least 8 GB of RAM (the more the better), and take the chance to install a second HD (1 TB) and mirror your system with CCC. It's great to always have a second OS to boot from, IMO

[Meffy]

CS5.5 is the current version. If you want to get the lowest upgrade pricing to 6 when it comes out, you have to have 5 or 5.5. I think that an outcry over that convinced Adobe to offer a deal where you can update from 2 - 5 to 5.5, then to 6, but I don't recall the details.

[justin3am]

We have a recent iMac and a Mac Mini server here at work and they both work very well as DAW machines. More than quick enough to handle lots of instruments, effects and audio channels.

I've used a lot of MacPros (I have a high end 12 core model at home and we have a 2nd generation 8 core model at work) and G5 towers and one of the things they have going for them is they'll stand up to 10 years of heavy use and abuse. I can't honestly say the same thing about the Mac Minis and definitely not the iMacs. Keep in mind, I have a personal prejudice against iMacs. I think you could expect to get 5 years of regular use out of a MacMini, you might have to replace an HD in that time, you may not. They don't stand up so well to abuse so I wouldn't recommend lugging one in a back-pack (like I used to do).

MacPros are also very easy to service if you ever need to replace an HD or RAM or the video card. It's also really easy to replace the fans if they get noisy (which they do if you don't keep them clean).

As far as Lion v. Snow Leopard... I still haven't made the switch completely. I have partitions that run 10.7.3 but I'm still mainly working in 10.6.8. The computers I use most often, hang more frequently when running Lion than when running Snow Leopard.

[DHR53]

I'd get a MacBook Pro 13" and a 27" monitor... Best combination of power and battery life. Works fine with Logic and CS-5. A great mobile and good desktop... That's what I use. Ubfortunately you'll get Lion, but you could just load SL before anything is loaded... Probably not worth the hassle.

[jondl_2000]

- Not totally deadset against Lion yet, but am wondering what software in my setup will be affected:

I have Logic Express 8, EZ drummer, idrum, steven slate drums, imposcar, mtron, BFD eco, Komplete Classics (Pro 53, B4, Elektrik & akoustik Piano) guitar Rig 3 + 4, PSP Nitro, Nomad Liquid bundle, Amplitube 2, T Racks EQ, RP Delay, kikaxxe, TC M30 reverb, Scanned Synth 2, and more that I can't remember now, plus just about all the free plugs that are out there, though only TAL stuff and Drum Core FREE are the ones that get into my projects the most.

If you're considering a new Mac w/ Lion you'll need to consider Logic Express 8 doesn't run under Mac OS X 10.7 - that's translates into another expense for the update to Logic Express 9. I don't know if Apple still offers the Logic Express 9 upgrade, but you can find them on Amazon for approximately $60.

The update to iDrum is available from Izotope at no charge and works under Lion.

Check your install disc for Komplete Classics - it's probably Universal Binary which means you can use the Leopard Installer Patch from Native Instruments to install Pro53 and B4II (and probably Elektrik and Akousik Piano) under Lion. Be advised these products have been discontinued and will not see updates to 64-bit compatible versions. I've installed these from Komplete 4, but skipped E & A Piano and chose to simply access the libraries in Kontakt (they were previously installed on an external HD anyhow... ) Guitar Rig 4 works under Lion - there is recent update to address 64-bit compatibility under Lion.

PSP Nitro works under Lion, but is also 32-bit. The 64-bit version is a paid upgrade.

TC M30 works under Lion, but no 64-bit version.

Check the Nomad website for an updated to Liquid Bundle. I have a pair of Nomad plug-ins purchased from audioMIDI.com during one of their past 'No Brainer' deals and both work under Lion and are 64-bit. They've changed the copy protection since back when and if memory serves they have one installer now for AU and one for VST for *all* their plug-ins and you choose which you are installing from the Custom Menu.

I can't speak to whether the other plug-ins in your set-up work under Lion - check the manufacturers websites (I quit IKM and never took to the TAL plug-in's simply because I'd spent good money on other plugs)

You may want to consider Logic X is probably going to deprecate 32-bit support and only run as a 64-bit app. I would take this under consideration if you're planning to spend money on the Logic Express upgrade and perhaps budget for Logic Pro (price has been reduced to $199) and expect some upgrade fee to Logic X.

As far as Lion goes, I've been it using for just over two months now on a late-2011 MBP and I there's much to like, but a few things - not so much. iCloud and the new Mail app are great; Launchpad would be great, but it really doesn't save many mouse clicks; don't like the updates to iCal and Address Book; Quicken 2007 doesn't run under Lion, but Intuit has said a mid-year update is coming to address that (too little, too late IMO) but I have not found a replacement I'm happy with yet. All my peripherals work fine - Epson Workforce 610, Nikon camera's, hard drives etc, Nocturn 25 w/ Automap 4 and my Native Instruments Kore 1 and Audio 2 DJ interfaces too.

I've read about user's installing Snow Leopard on new Mac's, but not entirely without issues - this is all hearsay as far as I'm concerned and would encourage you to check the forums at Macrumors or the news at XLR8YOURMAC for more accurate reports than I could offer. Or, price out a 2010 MBP w/ Snow Leopard and don't look back

Hope this is of help. Jon

[debra1rlo]

thanks for the replies so far. think i'm leaning more toward the refurb tower (and i sort of was already) as i'm not uncomfortable adding memory or installing a board and they are pretty robust machines. i don't need any of the features of Lion right now and tbh, i wouldn't mind waiting out a couple updates. i'm not looking at the tower being the end all be all of machines for the next 10 years, just something to get me thru the next year or two and something i can keep as a backup machine.

again, thanks all for your replies i'll keep monitoring this thread for additional feedback as I have nothing but time until Uncle Sam sends our refund.

[qube123]

If you can avoid Lion just yet I would. It's not as solid as SL is yet and although Logic works on it there are still plugs that have problems under this OS.

[aMUSEd]

I just bought an i7 MacMini and it's really very fast - not been able to max it yet even with Diva. Lion seems OK but I have no experience of previous OSX's - can't see the point of this Launchpad thing though - it's just a screen (or more) full of icons - just reminds me of my old Windows desktop cluttered up with icons for apps and files. I like the multiple desktops (although I have that on my Windows laptop too using BBLean shell)

[qube123]

Launchpad is a gimmic to attrack iDevice users who've never had a Mac to make them think 'hey look, it's like my phone! I want one'. I'd be surprised if anyone would actually use it.

[jondl_2000]

I'm perfectly happy with Lion and don't particularly miss Snow Leopard aside from the few quibbles previously listed.

Regarding Launchpad, it would be great if the Mac was an iPad/iPod/iPhone but I do really like the touchpad on the MBP.

[bduffy]

Launchpad is a gimmic to attrack iDevice users who've never had a Mac to make them think 'hey look, it's like my phone! I want one'. I'd be surprised if anyone would actually use it.

Yeah. I find between the Dock and Spotlight, I don't need another app launcher. I do commend the symmetry between iOS and OS X, though...

[mcnoone]

I guess as you said, getting a refurbished one is good.
Those saying Logic8 won't run or install using Lion, aren't exactly correct.
There's workarounds to install it on a native Lion mac...and they work fine on it.
Your CS2-3 might work with Lion, so long as it's not mac PPC compatible.
There might be developed some programs that will come out for Lion soon, that will run older software on Lion anyway...so waiting a while to upgrade is a good idea.
Best things to look for would be 8gb ram- at least 2.88ghz chip -solidstate harddrive...macbook pro 15'

Good luck in your search Deb.

[jancivil]

- Not totally deadset against Lion yet, but am wondering what software in my setup will be affected:

I have Logic Express 8...

If you're considering a new Mac w/ Lion you'll need to consider Logic Express 8 doesn't run under Mac OS X 10.

that may not be true. There is a thread here about it. Logic 8 will run fine reportedly, just not open the normal way, but from [Applications>Logic; right click]: package contents>Contents>Mac OS>Logic - Unix Executable File. double click. So this 'NG: Don't Work' appears to be a trick.