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Functional · Post by **Functional** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:02 am

Alright, I got, once again, another question to ask about chords.

If I have a CMaj7 chord and I, for example, remove the note E from it, then I will have 3 notes left, but how to call such chords?

The reason I'm asking because I'm trying to find out about this subject, but currently don't really know where to gain more information. I can have great results with trial & error using such practice, but the trial&error process just takes too long with those

quayquay17 · Post by **quayquay17** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:06 am

C7 i believe.

There's tools to look it up
boom! i was right!
check it out
http://valuesearch.info/chordfind/Default.aspx

Functional · Post by **Functional** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:12 am

Awesome, so they're just normal chords covered in more advanced music theory, I guess?

bluelife · Post by **bluelife** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:17 am

quayquay17 wrote:C7 i believe.

There's tools to look it up
boom! i was right!
check it out
http://valuesearch.info/chordfind/Default.aspx

This is wrong.

A CMAJ7 = C G B E
A C7 needs to have a Bb added.

Removing the E still leaves it as a CMAJ7 if you take the C as being the root because the dissonance between the C and B is still there.

Functional · Post by **Functional** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:51 am

So, if I got it correct after a quick read about the subject -

Chords that use more than 3 notes, sevenths, ninths, elevenths and thirteens can be played, but before doing that, I should study instead how they sound by removing the notes between the lines? And obviusly, prevent also any clashes between notes, from being too close to eachother but in different octaves?

bluelife · Post by **bluelife** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:54 am

Well, that sounds a bit difficult to understand.

ajor and minor chords are triads (3 notes), whereby you can add notes to create other chords such as 9ths etc.

In your first example the 3rd has been removed, so technically it is just a CMAJ7 no 3rd.

To answer your above question, you don't need to remove notes, you can.

Functional · Post by **Functional** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:00 am

Yeah indeed, I meant that I can and probably should experiment with that.

Since I've had great progressions by using that method, but I've known nothing really about it and was sort of hit&miss game. Now I realized that I should really think more about the fact that the notes repeat themselves in higher and lower octaves, so if my notes reach there, they shouldn't be next to notes that are in other octaves.

I guess I'll give this some practice and then move on to modulation, which is probably the toughest nut to crack.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:36 am

Traditional theory teaches us that in order for us to call it a chord it should have a 3rd. However popular music teaches us that the third doesn't have to appear in the chord. Generally chords that are not extended and have no third are referred to as power chords. Rock loves power chords but they are are not the sole domain of rock.

Comping is a device for keyboard players when they want to express the "shell" of a chord with the left hand so the right hand can concentrate on the melodic function. Generally one of the notes (usually the 5th in jazz but occasionally the third) Guitarists also comp rather then play the full chord keeping it down to only two or three notes.

When dealing with chord structures you might not be familar with, as Frank Gambale once said "Call it Fred". Paul McCartney simply referred to chords that he couldn't catagorize as 'the pretty one'

There are no wrong notes. And simply because you haven't found a theory to justify your direction it simply means you haven't found the theory. Someday some musicologist may find your music and derive a theory for it. Like "The bebop scale"

manducator · Post by **manducator** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:45 am

Here's a vst plugin that can guess chords:

http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/?p=midiChords

bluelife · Post by **bluelife** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:58 am

There is also a training software, never tried it though:
http://www.chordwizard.com/gold.aspx

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:51 pm

if there is a strong enough fundamental C, removing the E won't be that significant. the ear isn't going to supply a minor third as though to fill the absence so the quality of the triad isn't really in jeopardy (unless something else tricked the ear into it).

Coises · Post by **Coises** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:54 pm

Functional wrote:If I have a CMaj7 chord and I, for example, remove the note E from it, then I will have 3 notes left, but how to call such chords?

Cmaj7(no3)

JJBiener · Post by **JJBiener** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:59 pm

In any chord, the 5th is usually the note that is most expendable. C E B will clearly imply a CMaj7. C G B will leave the chord ambiguous as to major/minor. This can be ok if the melody supplies the notes to distinguish which scale the chord applies to.

Some artists deliberately leave out the thirds because they like the ambiguous nature of such chords. Tori Amos is one that comes to mind.

D.Josef · Post by **D.Josef** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:56 pm

Also, distortion and feedback tends to chew up thirds, which is really the reason that rock and metal are that big on power chords.

Functional · Post by **Functional** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:48 pm

Alright, I get it, so there's no real theory about them yet. I can see why, though, if we open up that possibility, it will leave us with so much to try and understand, that it's perhaps better to leave up to the inviduals to see how they work with their ears. (Well, hear how they work)

The reason I originally asked about them was due to watching the notes in a popular dance song, Avicii - Sunshine. It was filled with notes that don't make sense in my beginners knowledge of music theory, apart from them fitting into one scale, well partly at least, I guess there's modulation in as well.

Well, if there's no theory for them, I guess I'll have a lot to explore myself then!

Ain't a problem, been really fun since the beginning, even though I haven't really made anything revolutionary myself yet. Sometimes just knowing is enough.

Well, only thing left is modulation now. After that I'm gonna read the book thoroughly again and see do I remember everything.

So, about chords...