KVR Audio

Mike20 · Post by **Mike20** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:23 am

Hey, so I produce music like 5 days a week 13 hours a day but I feel like I am at the stage now where by I need to learn how to make chords that fit my music

I spend 1 hour each night downloading midi files of my favourite tracks and learning how to play them, but sometimes I just look at a set of chords and think wow.

What would you say is the best way to learn them? I can spend 2/3 hour per day just on chords no problem if that's what it takes

Thanks

Mike

cosmicdawn · Post by **cosmicdawn** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:36 am

Keep on doing what you are doing. And remember that chord voicing is also extemely important. You don't have to play all the notes in a chord to get your message through either.

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:24 am

Every chord type has a formula that you can use to count-up the keys to the correct positions. If you know the formula for one chord type, you can apply it to any root.

Here are some to try (R is the root note and the numbers indicate the next key up in semitones. 7th chords can be created as indicated in parentheses):

Chord Type Formula (7th)
5th R + 7
Major R + 4 + 3 (+3)
Minor R + 3 + 4 (+3)
7th R + 4 + 3 + 4
Major 7th R + 4 + 3 + 4
Minor 7th R + 3 +4 + 3
Minor/Major 7th R + 3 + 4 + 4
Augmented R + 4 + 4* (+3)
Diminished R + 3 + 3* (+3)
Sus2 R+ 2 + 5
Sus4 R + 5 + 2
9th (dom 9th) R + 4 + 3 + 3 + 4
m9th R + 3 + 4 + 3 + 4
6 R + 4 + 3 + 2
m6 R + 3 + 4 + 2

There are many more to try. They all follow their respective formulas.

To find the first inversion of any chord, take your finger off the root and place it on the note one octave above.

To find the second inversion, move your lowest finger up to the next available note in the chord.

This way you can cycle up-and-down the keyboard, in the process using the same notes.

These formulas also apply to detuning oscillators for one-finger chords.

You can throw away your chord books now

Scales also have formulas, for example:
Major R 2 2 1 2 2 2
Minor R 2 1 2 2 2 2
Blues R 3 2 1 1 3
Harmonic minor R 2 1 2 2 1 3
Melodic minor R 2 1 2 2 2 2
Pentatonic major R 2 3 2 2
Pentatonic minor R 3 2 2 3
Pentatonic Blues R 3 2 1 1 3

Where, again, the numbers indicate the next note up in semitones.

When you want to know the most common chords in each key:

These are guidelines to get you started. It helps tremendously when you understand why a certain chord fits a key, and when is a good time to throw-in a seventh or inversion, etc.

Mike20 · Post by **Mike20** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:59 pm

Wow what an amazing reply, thank you do much!

Im just on my phone at the moment but when I get back to my computer later I'm going to go through all this in a lot more detail!

Thanks again

Mike

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:40 pm

Hehe, no problem. A few other points occurred to me.

To find the key of a piece of music, start by playing the I, IV, and V chords of the various keys in the table above. You'll soon find which one's 'fit' and you can take it from there.

To narrow it down, certain musical styles tend to use the same keys, for example E A D and G are common in guitar-based rock. C and Am seem common in dance, etc. Some music is written in a certain key to fit the instruments - horns start at Bflat for example.

Also, inverting a 7th chord follows the same pattern as for the 1st and 2nd.

The majority of songs use a 7th somewhere in the chord changes. The tension between the 3rd and 7th notes begs to be relieved, and resolution often comes by changing to a major chord one fourth higher (i.e. G7 to C = the next key anticlockwise on the circle of 5ths).

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:58 pm

Mike20 wrote:Hey, so I produce music like 5 days a week 13 hours a day but I feel like I am at the stage now where by I need to learn how to make chords that fit my music

The best advice would be don't run before you can walk.
It is better to take lots of little steps than a few big ones.
Some of the stuff others have posted on here are way too complicated for a beginner.

Start with basic triads. Learn the difference between a major and a minor triad. When you're happy with that, look at diminished and augmented triads.

Only when you're happy with all them should you start to think about anything else.

Start with basic functional harmony. Concentrate on the primary triads; I, IV and V. Practise using them in different combinations to harmonise simple tunes.

When you get that, add in the secondary triads, and so on.

It's like learning a language. You need to build up the basic everyday vocabulary before you dive into complex encyclopaedias!

A good book on harmony would help.

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:29 pm

JumpingJackFlash wrote: Some of the stuff others have posted on here are way too complicated for a beginner.

What's so complicated about counting semitones? You can bury your head in a book, or dive-in and do practical exercises, learning as you go.

Horses for courses I suppose.

The OP doesn't sound like a beginner to me. 13 hours/day 5 days a week is about 50 hours more than I can manage.

Functional · Post by **Functional** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Alright, I'm probably in no position to give real advice about producing music or understanding chords since my knowledge is lacking as well compared to what the first poster had there.

But, you do spend a lot of time with learning. May I suggest to take some breaks?

I mean, I personally learn best when I just learn one thing at a time, think about it rest of the day and then eventually check out if everything I know about it stands true. If so, I proceed to learning next thing.

Only reading and trying things out in piano roll or your keyboard won't necessarily be as fast even though it may seem like so. You may miss out a lot of things just to make things faster. I personally feel like music has nothing to rush for and understanding music by default will take a lot of your time.

But please keep in mind, this is just what I think. Don't take this all for granted. I'm just really interested in the field of self-teaching vs. learning from a teacher et cetera.

But my advice is;

Take your time. It's all good.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Theory shmeory

Learn an instrument like a guitar or piano

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:24 pm

The easiest way to learn chords is in context which means learning songs.

Benefits include:

You'll no longer be dependent on looking at chord charts as a reference. Because you'll have them in your head.

It will be easier when you want to learn other songs and easier to write your own. Because you will have physically worked out the chords and the rhythms from which you can apply to other songs.

You'll have a song you can play for your own personal enjoyment or the enjoyment of others.

As far as the self taught thing I'll pass on this. I too was self taught for a time. I was fair at somethings I already had came easily to me that would not come easily to others, and still other things while I'd read them time and time again didn't sink in. Three months of lessons took me further then an wall full of books and 4 years of self study ever did. Granted I had a great teacher. It lifted me out of my rut. I got better gigs got into better bands and became a studio musician as a result. I wrote more not less prolificly and more profoundly after taking lessons then prior.

nickman · Post by **nickman** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:24 pm

A couple of ideas:

1 Download the chords of some songs you know by heart, then play the basic chord in the LH (block first then spread/ arp etc after a while) and play the tune in the RH. Do it by reading the chords first but after a few days try doing it without - just by listening for the chord changes - e.g. M7, 7 minor etc. Pay particular attention to the bass/ slash notes as they establish the movement in a song

2 Play these 17 chords - just about all you'll need.

Using C first, play RH first, spread then block, then LH, then all 12 keys
1 Cmaj C E G C (Fingering RH 1235) Major, Octave
2 CM7 C E G B (1235) Major 7
3 C7 C E G Bb (1235) or (1234) 7 or Dominant 7
4 C6 C E G A (1234) Major 6
5 Caug C E G# (124) Augmented triad
6 Cmaj C E G (123) Major Triad
7 Cm C EbG C (1235) Minor, Octave
8 CmM7 C EbG B (1235) Min Major 7
9 Cm7 C EbG Bb (1235) Minor 7
10 Cm6 C EbG A (1234) Minor 6
11 Cdim7 C EbGbA (1235) Diminished 7
12 Cdim C EbGb (123) Diminished triad
13 Cm7b5 C EbGbBb (1235) Minor 7 Flat 5 (aka Half Diminished)
14 CSus2 C D G C (1235) Suspended 2
15 CSus4 C F G C (1235) Suspended 4
16 C6(9) C D E G A (12345) Major 6 add 9
17 CM7(9) C D E G B (12345) Major 7 add 9 (Just move pinky first to B and back to A)

If you have a kb to one side, you can even do it when browsing the KVR forum!

Then take each chord in turn and do a (RH) two octave broken chord then a two octave arp - slowly at first - looking and hearing the intervals - that will give you the all the various chord inversions. Then do LH

Half an hour a day is much better than 2 hours once every few.

Couple of months and you'll be getting a job in a cocktail bar!

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:45 pm

I agree that the best way to learn chords is in the context of a song -- to see how functional harmony functions.

Then say you learn a given song in Bb -- well then there's an opprtunity to trtanspose the whole of it to all the wother keys, but you may want to transpose to closely related keys and then the idea of moving to differnt keys begins to have some basis in experience and what you hear.

I think Rikky Rooksby's books/DVDs are very good introduction to the fundamentals of chord progressions in the context of songs and whole song structure and songwriting.

Mike20 · Post by **Mike20** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:24 am

just come back to this thread to find more replies, Thank you all I'm going to read them now

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:23 am

stimresp wrote:To narrow it down, certain musical styles tend to use the same keys, for example E A D and G are common in guitar-based rock. C and Am seem common in dance, etc. Some music is written in a certain key to fit the instruments - horns start at Bflat for example.

This never really crossed my mind before, but you're probably right. Guitar-based rock takes advantage of open chords, which means a lot of E A D G unless you retune or use a capo. A lot of dance music producers probably do stick to "just the white notes". Interesting...

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:55 am

This app has more chords than I'll ever play. It's icon logo may look cheesy but it has everything from Major to Minor Thirteenth as well as reverse chord look-up. Certainly worth a try if you have an Android phone.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ords&hl=en

Best way to learn chords