KVR Audio

ntom · Post by **ntom** » Sun May 13, 2012 1:56 am

Complete shit. Just a pile of rubbish. A hunk of junk.
I need a set!

No, I am serious before you give me the stank eye and think I have gone completely mad (not completely yet). I want a set of the most rubbish, cheap, tinny sounding speakers that money can buy...well...that...a dollar or two can buy (and even that quality might be too good for what I am looking for).

What? You want an explanation for such an odd request? Jesus, you guys ask too much of me...having to explain my motives...
TO MONITOR MY MUSIC ON OF COURSE!

Okay...okay, it was an idea that came to my head when a client was talking about how he just purchased a set of Yamaha NS-10s. He said they were some revolutionary monitors because, well...frankly they sounded like utter shit, but if your mix could sound good on those, then the mix will sound PERFECT everywhere else.
Got me thinking, I can apply this idea to my own monitoring. NO, I'm not a complete idiot, I know that there is a difference between Yamaha NS-10s and a pile of poo. I would still use my cans and my existing "monitors" for 95% of all my mixing, but use the SHIT to check my mix off of.
How crazy of an idea does it sound now? Not so much, huh?

Anyways, recommendations?

Should note, I do have a set of uttershitspeakers attached to both of my [computer] monitors, but one thing I am looking for is at least not too TOO much poo in the bass end. The problem with the speakers on my monitors is that there is literally no bass. (this is not an exaggeration)

Xenobt · Post by **Xenobt** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:08 am

These are pretty much industry standards for the "so-bad-it's-good" testing you're talking about. They take the place of the old Auratone cubes that were in every radio and tv station from the mid 60's to the 90's:

http://www.amazon.com/Avant-Electronics ... B000NTUGKW

They're not cheap, but they'll show midrange balances, stereo imaging and details that "prettier" speakers don't.

Otherwise, a mid-priced boom box with at least 6" speakers will give you good real world results too. If it has selections for different eqs, i.e. "pop, jazz. rock, classical", even better. Just don't get anything that has "mega-bass" that can't be turned off.

I use a jvc "tube" style blaster with several eq settings and three different bass settings, and I find that averaging between its various voicings and my Event studio monitors gives me the most consistent results elsewhere.

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:14 am

the ns-10s are the best crappy sounding monitors I have ever heard, in my circle back in the day that was kind of common knowledge. I sure sold a lot of them to people that feel the same way. I still dont like them, I'll stick to my Tannoy Proto-Js from around the same time

ntom · Post by **ntom** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:38 am

I was looking at the NS-10s on ebay, and the results vary...but all are definately too pricey for me. I really don't feel like REAL monitors is a requirement for me at this point. I have a set of Sennheiser HD280's (cans) for monitoring and they do some serious justice, and my common-place computer speakers seem to fill any gaps (seriously...for just civil-use speakers they are pretty good, and they aren't even that expensive). I did feel having a tinny, nasty source may help give me an idea of my mix overall. The other place I monitor my music is in my car, which has a set of imperial speakers. Fair quality, the low mids are kind of nasty coming through, but a good source to test. So basically I have some high-end monitoring (cans), two different medium "common place" monitoring, but no low end...I suppose my phone's speaker would work but frankly, something about phone speakers (ALL phone speakers) irritate my ears, which is why I just wanted a set of shit speakers, and the other thing: I wanted to do it because I would imagine I wouldn't spend over $20 for a set of shit speakers.

Xenobt · Post by **Xenobt** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:49 am

If you don't want to spend anything, try using your tv! If you can get a mix to sound good on two 3" speakers, (often summed to mono) mission accomplished!

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:50 am

http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct ... 1+Blk.html

ntom · Post by **ntom** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:55 am

thecontrolcentre wrote:http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct ... 1+Blk.html

considerable, though still a bit pricey.
Per TV suggestion...I don't have a TV

(bit of irony there, since I am a cable technician, huh?)

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sun May 13, 2012 3:04 am

Any old boombox or bookshelf hifi would do the job as long as it has a CD/Tape input ... I've used both as grot box monitors. Picked this one up for £5 from a charity shop ...

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue May 15, 2012 10:49 am

Probably pushing it too far:

but you get the idea

skipscada · Post by **skipscada** » Tue May 15, 2012 11:05 am

Supplementary monitoring is hardly a new idea. What you describw is called a "Grotbox". Although they also offer supllementary monitoring, Yamaha NS10s and Auratone 5C Super Sound Cubes are NOT grotboxes. They are monitors that highlight the midrange. A typical grotbox would be cheap stereospeakers placed very close to each other - best listened to off-axis from a reasonable distance. Headphones could be another kind of supplementary monitoring.

Source: Mike Senior "Mixing Secrets"

Wittenberg · Post by **Wittenberg** » Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

I always had a hard time following this approach to monitoring.

If you try hard to make your mix sound great on crappy speakers, you could have turned up bass to excessive levels that will be way over the top on other systems. That's we we DO need 'expensive' and 'real' monitorspeakers, to give a realistic and even impression of what's going on.

Perhaps the thing that made the NS10's or auratones such a succes is that they sounded crappy enough to make you work hard, but still were accurate enough to allow sensible mixing decisions.

... which would mean that not just any crappy speaker will help you built good mixes. it would have to be very good crappy speakers. Ha ha.

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Xenobt wrote:These are pretty much industry standards for the "so-bad-it's-good" testing you're talking about. They take the place of the old Auratone cubes that were in every radio and tv station from the mid 60's to the 90's:

I thought that was largely a myth and that the NS10s are actually very detailed in the midrange and very easy to mix on because of it. Even more so with the Auratones (them not having crossover filters and having only one speaker element (good phase coherent) and whatnot).

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:12 pm

One of the best £15 I have spent on:
http://www.alteclansing.com/ae/us/ipod- ... nvt/im237/
Edit - Its the 'Orbit M' which I have and looks like this:

I doesn't seem to be on thier website for some reason

But you can definately buy them.
and Studio Spares SN-10 NS-10 rip-offs are really rather great VFM. Even go abit lower than the NS-10 and handle abit more power, As you are in the US though I do not know what the shipping would be and probably lessen the VFM by alot

@TCC Classy little score you got there. Haven't been to a carboot in ages even though they have some decent ones regular. Note to self

That little Altec Lansing is portable and has just the right amount of not enough bass to make the low-mids and mids the center of all attention

Hope that helps and FWIW, Best to all as always

Dean

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:39 pm

Wittenberg wrote:I always had a hard time following this approach to monitoring.

If you try hard to make your mix sound great on crappy speakers, you could have turned up bass to excessive levels that will be way over the top on other systems. That's we we DO need 'expensive' and 'real' monitorspeakers, to give a realistic and even impression of what's going on.

Perhaps the thing that made the NS10's or auratones such a succes is that they sounded crappy enough to make you work hard, but still were accurate enough to allow sensible mixing decisions.

... which would mean that not just any crappy speaker will help you built good mixes. it would have to be very good crappy speakers. Ha ha.

Well definately on the money with the NS10's, Its just because pretty much every audio eningeer knows them so no matter where they may be working if the studio has a set of NS10's as nearfields or as an option for nearfields then the engineer or mix engineer shall not have to learn the room or its much more expensive main set except when checking at louder levels to hear/feel how the low-end is doing, For most tracking needs the mains are not really needed hence the muchos love of the very average NS10. Auratones less so but a sole one for checking things in mono is really useful i think personally. Aslong as a control room has a pair of NS10s then I'd bet most of us could work in it as using them as a a point of reference

Almost quantity over quality but in a good way. That is my personal take on the 'why NS10's?' thing anyway for what its worth/my own personal experience Wittenberg

Best

Dean

Arglebargle · Post by **Arglebargle** » Tue May 15, 2012 4:05 pm

ntom wrote: Okay...okay, it was an idea that came to my head when a client was talking about how he just purchased a set of Yamaha NS-10s. He said they were some revolutionary monitors because, well...frankly they sounded like utter shit, but if your mix could sound good on those, then the mix will sound PERFECT everywhere else.

That makes no sense. It's like saying, if you paint in dim light, your painting will look amazing in any other light.

Utter Garbage Speakers