*rant alert* - why mark other people's reviews down if you don't have the balls to do one yourself?

[Doug1978]

Hi Everyone

Apologies for the rant (and the very long thread title) -

Naturally, what really started me foaming at the teeth was how my own review for 'Moon-Unit' has picked up a negative vote less than half a day after it appeared. :x
(And I expect it will pick up quite a few more now after this thread )

However, browsing through the reviews section at KVR it appears that quite a lot of reviews nowadays receive more negative votes than positive votes - and in fairness, the ones that I've viewed today aren't at all bad.

Now it is a free world and people can of course vote how they like.
And also this negative voting is not a KVR phenomenon (but I tend to find that on sites like Amazon, the positive votes usually outweigh the negative when someone has tried to offer a relevant and informed review).

But most of us who write reviews here try to give as honest and as relevant account as possible regarding products.

And, moreover, if people don't like a review - or think it is lacking in some way - why don't they show us how to do it instead?
(Also, rather than ticking the negative button, why not just leave the page and move on to something else?)

So I shall end my rant now (thank f**k!), by asking if you are so intent to mark reviews down, then why not write a better one yourself?

Cheers.
Doug

[sjm]

I've voted both "yes" and "no" to reviews in the past. I've read your review and wasn't moved either way. It sounds like the plugin is pretty restricted in what it does, you liked it and that's fair enough. It's definitely not an unhelpful review in my eyes.

What makes me select "no" in reviews are comments like "I haven't used this much but..." where I ask myself what's the point in reviewing something you haven't used properly? How useful is your feedback going to be in this case? In cases like this I hope that the reviewer might think twice about reviewing their latest toy on the day they first used it if they get enough "no" votes.

Useful reviews are generally those that talk about more than just the obvious - I can read the plugin description to find out what it does - i.e. reviews that actually talk about the experience of using the plugin, what it's good at, what it isn't good at etc. After all, that's what a review is for, isn't it?

I do suspect there's a certain amount of people who might vote a review down because they disagree with the review itself, but I don't think that's really the idea behind the voting system. So in those cases I'd agree with you - don't vote "no" just because you disagree. But if I read a review and am afterwards none the wiser, surely there's nothing wrong with a "no" vote?


So that's my review of the reviews on KVR...

Was it helpful to you

[Doug1978]

^^ I think this is a fair review of the situation (and a well considered answer too).
Thank you SJM


I should also point out that, in addition to this being a sulky whinge about my own negative-scoring review , more to the point I am genuinely surprised at how many better and fuller reviews also seem to get voted down (and then no-one can be bothered to write a 'more helpful' review themselves afterwards).


Finally, on a side note, I do appreciate some KVR members' 'surprise' and disdain at the number of product reviews giving 10 out of 10 marks.
However, notwithstanding that a person might feel that a certain product is just what they had hoped for and they can not see any negative traits, in addition it currently appears that there is no way to separate various parts of the review like before (eg Sound, Support etc - or am I missing something?) and so the reviews arguably become more simplified by this nature.

[ariston]

It specifically states: "Was it helpful to you?"

If someone thinks a review isn't helpful, then they're assessing this particular aspect of it. Looking at your review just now, I noticed that it's not what one could call particularly in-depth. It's a recommendation, not a review. If my best friend recommends something to me, I might find that useful. If someone I don't know recommends something, he'd better back up that recommendation, else it's completely useless to me.

Same goes for a lot of other reviews posted recently. I'm not even going to get into the ubiquitous and ludicrous "10s" that are being distributed for plugins that are not, have never been, and will never be "10s". That's covered here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=

I guess what I'm saying is: if you want someone to find your reviews helpful, then write helpful reviews.

[ariston]

Take this quote from a recent review, f.e.:

"my biggest concern is the architecture; this synth is quite different from what i'm used to, and i need to make time (a full day or two) to really explore the GUI; it's a bit of a foreign language right now, so…will get to that."

You need time to explore the GUI?? Then why the frack are you writing a review, if you haven't even explored the product fully? What are we supposed to learn from that?

I realize this comes across as being bad-tempered and spiteful, but the truth of the matter is:

a)I AM feeling bad-tempered because I have a head cold

and

b) I really like reading reviews, and I think this could be such a valuable resource on KVR. You've got some degree of power as a reviewer, and this power is being abused right now. Why not put some care and thought into it?

[Doug1978]

It specifically states: "Was it helpful to you?"

If someone thinks a review isn't helpful, then they're assessing this particular aspect of it. Looking at your review just now, I noticed that it's not what one could call particularly in-depth. It's a recommendation, not a review. If my best friend recommends something to me, I might find that useful. If someone I don't know recommends something, he'd better back up that recommendation, else it's completely useless to me.

Same goes for a lot of other reviews posted recently. I'm not even going to get into the ubiquitous and ludicrous "10s" that are being distributed for plugins that are not, have never been, and will never be "10s". That's covered here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=

I guess what I'm saying is: if you want someone to find your reviews helpful, then write helpful reviews.

^^ Yep, that's half of the argument.
However, the other half is that if someone wants to vote negatively because they found a review to be unhelpful, then why don't they do a more helpful review instead - particularly of a product that has a demo and so is easily tested?

Horses for courses I guess, but I haven't voted negatively on any site - I'd rather offer a review that I thought provided my own take on proceedings.

Also, I take the point about my review for Moon-Unit not being particularly in depth - although I honestly liked the product a great deal, it is a bargain price £1, it sounds great for my dub productions and has a demo for others to test (all of which I put in my review).
Sure, I could probably write a couple more pars about a simple 'zapper' like Moon-Unit, but some products do a simple task very well and honestly don't lend themselves to eloquent speeches or tautological gushings.

[Doug1978]

Take this quote from a recent review, f.e.:

"my biggest concern is the architecture; this synth is quite different from what i'm used to, and i need to make time (a full day or two) to really explore the GUI; it's a bit of a foreign language right now, so…will get to that."

You need time to explore the GUI?? Then why the frack are you writing a review, if you haven't even explored the product fully? What are we supposed to learn from that?

I realize this comes across as being bad-tempered and spiteful, but the truth of the matter is:

a)I AM feeling bad-tempered because I have a head cold

and

b) I really like reading reviews, and I think this could be such a valuable resource on KVR. You've got some degree of power as a reviewer, and this power is being abused right now. Why not put some care and thought into it?

I haven't seen that whole review so I can't really comment on it.
Sorry also about your head cold.

It appears that you and I must agree to disagree on this issue of negative review scoring as opposed to instead writing a 'more helpful' review.

[Robert Randolph]

Lots of people use this argument of "Well, if you can't do any better, then you're wrong", or similar.

The problem is that it's logically incorrect. Not everyone has interest in writing reviews, or owns any products worth reviewing or even the writing skills necessary. There is nothing about one's ability to consume something that indicates their ability to create something.

Simply put, you need not be a chef to know what good/bad food tastes like.

[ariston]

^^ Yep, that's half of the argument.
However, the other half is that if someone wants to vote negatively because they found a review to be unhelpful, then why don't they do a more helpful review instead - particularly of a product that has a demo and so is easily tested?

Well, two things come to mind: I don't want to read a review by someone who's just given the demo "a spin". I want someone who knows what he's talking about. And, while I think that writing a more helpful review will in some way alleviate the damage done before, that would actually defeat the point of having reviews at all. I read reviews in order to avoid having to demo everything.

I agree that a mere anonymous "helpful/stinker" button is not an ideal solution. The discussion section should be enough, as it allows people to be specific about their critique.

[Robert Randolph]

I should also point out that, in addition to this being a sulky whinge about my own negative-scoring review , more to the point I am genuinely surprised at how many better and fuller reviews also seem to get voted down (and then no-one can be bothered to write a 'more helpful' review themselves afterwards).

If I'm reading a review, it's because I don't own the product. I can however tell if the review assessed the product fully and addressed my concerns about the product. I also can tell if a positive review seems 'canned' or lacked genuine excitement, and likewise see when a negative review lacks any substance to the claims made.

Thusly after judging whether a review was useful to me, which I'm fully capable of, I am fully incapable of writing my own review because of the very reason I was reading the review in the first place! I don't own the product.

[Robert Randolph]

Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment

[Doug1978]

I agree that a mere anonymous "helpful/stinker" button is not an ideal solution. The discussion section should be enough, as it allows people to be specific about their critique.

I agree with this.


Ariston and Robert (and indeed probably other people who come onto this thread) - I think that your arguments are valid and fair. I just don't agree with them because I prefer my own valid and fair arguments!
(And I don't see this overall issue as an argument of logic but more one of subjective taste in whether people choose to press the negative button and / or write a more 'helpful' subsequent review).
Thus, to avoid repeating my previous point ad nauseum, I'll now go and make some tea.

[Robert Randolph]

I agree that a mere anonymous "helpful/stinker" button is not an ideal solution. The discussion section should be enough, as it allows people to be specific about their critique.

I agree with this.


Ariston and Robert (and indeed probably other people who come onto this thread) - I think that your arguments are valid and fair. I just don't agree with them because I prefer my own valid and fair arguments!
(And I don't see this overall issue as an argument of logic but more one of subjective taste in whether people choose to press the negative button and / or write a more 'helpful' subsequent review).
Thus, to avoid repeating my previous point ad nauseum, I'll now go and make some tea.

I explained quite clearly why people press the button rather than write their own review. It seems like you don't understand why most people read reviews

Enjoy your tea

[ariston]

Ariston and Robert (and indeed probably other people who come onto this thread) - I think that your arguments are valid and fair. I just don't agree with them because I prefer my own valid and fair arguments!
(And I don't see this overall issue as an argument of logic but more one of subjective taste in whether people choose to press the negative button and / or write a more 'helpful' subsequent review).
Thus, to avoid repeating my previous point ad nauseum, I'll now go and make some tea.

Good idea, I think some Yogi cocoa tea would hit the spot right about now.

[Teksonik]

The reviews are completely useless and should be dropped from KVR.........all they do is cause problems (Exhibit A this thread).