KVR Audio

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:59 pm

Looking for a new midi controller keyboard. I like the features of the Roland/Cakewalk A-800PRO and have heard good things about it, BUT I read it has shortened keys (not normal lenght).

Now my question: Are the shortened keys a problem for serious playing (I mean real synth playing, not just entering notes)? Does anyone own one of these and can comment on it?

Thanks in advance

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Sat May 19, 2012 1:12 pm

Anyone?

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat May 19, 2012 1:31 pm

I have a Roland PCR800 and white keys are 13.2cm. White keys extend 5.0cm outside black keys.

I have a fullsize Yamaha which has 14.8cm white keys. And white keys extend 5.2cm outside black keys.

The difference would be playing large intervals and needing to press some keys close to origin needing more force.

But if talking serious playing - these so called semiweighted keys are crap anyway compared to weighted keys like a piano. There is no feel in these plastic keys.

I gather the keys are ok for synth stuff.

How PCR800 differ from A800 I don't know. I cannot even imagine Roland doing a keyboard not good enough for synth playing.

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Sat May 19, 2012 2:18 pm

ok thanks

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Sat May 19, 2012 3:13 pm

I have an A-300Pro. It feels very similar to my Novation X-Station, which is to say it has a wonderful semi-weighted feel. It's a quality construction, and the pitch bender also feels more solid than my Korg Triton or my Novation. The Korg Triton keys have a lighter action, which might be better for very fast work, but they feel cheap.

As far as key width, my Fatar fully-weighted piano keyboard is full-size 6 1/2" per octave (C to B), the Korg Triton is 6 5/16", and the Roland is also 6 5/16". So the width is also slightly less like the Triton. The Novation X-Station is full-width, and frankly, I recommend it over any other controller synth keyboard, including the Roland, because it has more and better-labeled and lit knobs and switches, not to mention an audio interface and a synth built in (and the option to use on USB or battery power - no wall wart needed). You can also pick up a 3, 4 or 5-octave version on ebay for much cheaper than the Roland.

I find the A-300 keyboard wonderful for touch-sensitive playing. I recorded this piece entirely using the little A-300 pro:

http://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/wintersolstice

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Sat May 19, 2012 3:42 pm

On a related topic, I have observed a strange fashion for keyboards with smaller than usual size, just as the OP points to. I spent some time playing new synths in my local keyboard shop and was surprised at this 'shortened' size. My own very old Roland XP80 has a keyborad with keys which are smaller then my other synths, most notably the Yamaha SY77 which has what I consider to be one of the best keyboards. I got used to the XP key size and if the A-800PRO has similar size, playing synth lines shouldn't be a problem, but as a general observation, I don't understand this push towards smaller keyboards.

waltercruz · Post by **waltercruz** » Sat May 19, 2012 4:56 pm

Well, I'm a keyboard player since a long time... I had an Axiom 61, but the keyboard action was like crap. Now I have a Roland A800pro, and I like the keys action. Honest synth key actions. But I really don't know if there are many differences on the keys from roland a800 and cakewalk a800.

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Sat May 19, 2012 8:25 pm

Thanks a lot for your opinions. Maybe I'll also have a look at the Novation, although a good playing feel is more important for me than having a lot of controls.

Peter999 · Post by **Peter999** » Sun May 20, 2012 9:56 am

I was considering getting the A-800PRO too because I'm looking for a masterkeyboard offering a joystick for pitch/mod because I can't stand the obligate wheels. The roland bender seems to be a halfway decent alternative for the joystick. But the not full length keys made me hesitate so far, since I'm used to play on full-lenght keys. I'm using a Korg DW-8000 as main master keyboard because of the joystick, the full-lenght keys and the solid playing feel . But single keys start to fail now. Unfortunately almost all master keyboards I've tried are hobby crap, none of them has a joystick (only the novation, but its joystick looks a bit weird to me), and none of them has buttons for direct program change as the DW-8000 has, you always have to go over a menu, minimum 3 - 4 clicks if not more for a program change.

Why doesn't anyone (e.g. Korg) produce a masterkeyboard with joystick (with metal bar like in DW-8000, not plastic crap as in Triton), good full-size keyboard with enough hub (most are too flat/too soft for me) and direct program change buttons? Can't understand this...

Maybe I'd better buy another DW-8000...

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Wed May 23, 2012 3:57 pm

The DW8000 as masterkeyboard? What a waste

Will going to check the Cakewalk asap, probably the only way to really find out if the short keys work for me.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Wed May 23, 2012 4:17 pm

Personally I'd avoid it like the plague. There are standard sizes for all instruments and I don't think I'd play a keyboard with non-standard keys anymore than I'd buy a 3/4 size violin as an adult.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:35 pm

Peter999 wrote: because I can't stand the obligate wheels.

So, I'm not the only one after all.

I love my pitch sticks/joysticks too.

JJBiener · Post by **JJBiener** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:50 pm

I was looking for a small keyboard I could use when I am away from my studio. I tried some of the minikey alternatives, and none of them were usable in my opinion. I suppose it would be possible to get used to the minikeys, but I don't know why anyone would want to given the number of controllers available with full-size keys in all different form factors. I ended up with an Alesis Q25, and I have never been sorry.

Peter999 · Post by **Peter999** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:05 pm

himalaya wrote:
Peter999 wrote: because I can't stand the obligate wheels.
So, I'm not the only one after all.

I love my pitch sticks/joysticks too.

What are you using then?

The only new master keyboards with joystick I saw are the novation with a little bit a strange implementation of it (I guess because of korg patents). Studiologic has a one with a joystick in the middle instead of on the left (unusable) and the Korg Control 49 only has 49 keys and a tiny shitty toy-one at the top. It's really sad. There's no masterkeyboard with good fullsize keys and an original joystick.

You simply can't do some playing styles with wheels, they really are just "slow-hand" controllers, nothing for fast pitch vibratos and combined pitch/modulation guitar-style orgies.

If patents for the joystick belong to Korg, why doesn't Korg build a one? Can't really understand it. I was already thinking of buying a used Korg Poly 800 for cheap money simply to take the joystick out of it (it's the one with metal bar which I love, no slippery plastic junk as in the newer korgs) and build it into in a decent non-joystick masterkeyboard.

But why do I have to do this by myself when there are master keyboard manufacturers? Korg, do you hear me?

The second point is program changes. It's really unbelievable, but in all midi keyboards I tried so far you have to go into a menu to send a program change. When you're playing and want to change to a new sound, do you have time and feel like to go into a sub-menu for this? No! You want to click on a button and it's done! What are they thinking? In the DW8000 you can choose a new program with two clicks (the second sends it) which covers 64 programs, for the full 128 you just needed to add an lower/upper switch,

That's what I wished. A decent full-size full-hub 61 keys keyboard (no kids, dwarf or mickey-mouse keys), a metal-bar-joystick with tip (why not add wheels additionally as option?) and direct program change buttons (2 + 8 to cover 128 programs). Maybe I'm dreaming...

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Thu May 24, 2012 3:58 am

I actually had no trouble at all with the smaller keys. I think it's easier to play certain tough chords actually. I play all three of my boards together, switching back and forth, and I never really even notice the difference while playing, it's that subtle. 6 of one, half-dozen of another, it can be viewed as a positive thing, especially if you want a small board.

Korg needs to start offering custom modular left-hand control sections. Users should be able to order whatever modular controls they want, and these should be easy to just plug in. I'd like a hand-shaped controller section (like a mouse or trackball concept) with a spring lever for pinkie finger and buttons for fingers 3 and 4. All their top boards should at least have a choice of wheels or joysticks. However, this wasn't the case even when everyone was a player. Now they're mostly programmers so it's even less likely to happen.

Cakewalk A-800PRO: Are the shortened keys a problem for serious playing?