Hi all. I've been using Cantabile Performer for about a year now and I'm very happy with it. There is one thing that I've struggled with since I started using it and this is it..
If I want to sync an arpeggio on a VST instrument within Cantabile, to a external MIDI clock from another PC the following happens:
1. First, I test the synths arpeggio with Cantabile set to metronome being master clock. Works fine.
2. Then I set the metronome to "Sync to incoming MIDI Clock".
Cantabiles tempo (in the bottom right corner) changes to the incoming tempo, fine.
3. Now, here's the problem. The VSTi doesn't play at all until I uncheck "Sync to incoming clock".
I've tested this on Brainspawn's Forte and it works fine.
Regards
Sync Cantabile to external MIDI clock
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- KVRist
- 196 posts since 11 Sep, 2004 from Germany
Hi,
by chance I just did some tests on sync to another daw (ableton live in my case) and tried both: syncing cantabile to live and vice versa. At first glance syncing cantabile to live seemed to work (other than in your setup the vstis worked). But reproducable after a while I got more and more distortion. Only by restarting cantabile it was possible to get a clean sound (for a while).
The other way round worked better. But here I observed a slow drift in synchronisation (after some miuntes the timing between cantabile and live had drifted so that I had to stop and start live again.
At least there was only one solution so far that worked: at the moment I use cantabile without audio (null audio driver) only as midi routing machine and all of my vstis in live which leads to a perfect synchronisation between arpeggiators and clips. The connection between live and cantabile is done by LoopBe.
Only some scetches from here, maybe this can help you.
Regards, humphrey
by chance I just did some tests on sync to another daw (ableton live in my case) and tried both: syncing cantabile to live and vice versa. At first glance syncing cantabile to live seemed to work (other than in your setup the vstis worked). But reproducable after a while I got more and more distortion. Only by restarting cantabile it was possible to get a clean sound (for a while).
The other way round worked better. But here I observed a slow drift in synchronisation (after some miuntes the timing between cantabile and live had drifted so that I had to stop and start live again.
At least there was only one solution so far that worked: at the moment I use cantabile without audio (null audio driver) only as midi routing machine and all of my vstis in live which leads to a perfect synchronisation between arpeggiators and clips. The connection between live and cantabile is done by LoopBe.
Only some scetches from here, maybe this can help you.
Regards, humphrey
hosts: c8.5, cantabile3.0, forte4.0, live 9, trakor
hardware: i7 4770k, i7 4702qm, all audio converters RME, KH120A
vsts / vstis: u-he, voxengo, fabfilter, izotope, lexicon, waves, spectrasonics, ni, steinberg, gsi, uvi, xfer & others
hardware: i7 4770k, i7 4702qm, all audio converters RME, KH120A
vsts / vstis: u-he, voxengo, fabfilter, izotope, lexicon, waves, spectrasonics, ni, steinberg, gsi, uvi, xfer & others
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 19 Jul, 2011
Hi Humphrey. Thanks for your reply. I will test LoopBe, never done that before. I run rtpMidi and it has worked fine for me.
My issue isn't so much about latency and MIDI timing, rather as soon as I enable the external MIDI clock all VSTi with arpeggio (or trigged sounds from my NI Pro 53) stops playing, synths without arpeggio works fine.
At first I thought that the problem was within the VSTi's, baut they all work fine in Forte. I have downloaded a trialversion of Ableton, will try that as well.
Regards
My issue isn't so much about latency and MIDI timing, rather as soon as I enable the external MIDI clock all VSTi with arpeggio (or trigged sounds from my NI Pro 53) stops playing, synths without arpeggio works fine.
At first I thought that the problem was within the VSTi's, baut they all work fine in Forte. I have downloaded a trialversion of Ableton, will try that as well.
Regards
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- KVRist
- 196 posts since 11 Sep, 2004 from Germany
Ah, o.k., just a quick idea: did you enable clock for the Midi in in the settings?
This is necessary, otherwise cantabile doesn't synchronise.
Regards, humphrey
This is necessary, otherwise cantabile doesn't synchronise.
Regards, humphrey
hosts: c8.5, cantabile3.0, forte4.0, live 9, trakor
hardware: i7 4770k, i7 4702qm, all audio converters RME, KH120A
vsts / vstis: u-he, voxengo, fabfilter, izotope, lexicon, waves, spectrasonics, ni, steinberg, gsi, uvi, xfer & others
hardware: i7 4770k, i7 4702qm, all audio converters RME, KH120A
vsts / vstis: u-he, voxengo, fabfilter, izotope, lexicon, waves, spectrasonics, ni, steinberg, gsi, uvi, xfer & others
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 19 Jul, 2011
Hi. Yes, I enable MIDI clock on the incoming MIDI port. The tempo in the bottom right corner of Cantabile adjusts to the tempo on the other computer. Since yesterday I've experimented a bit with letting MidiOX generate MIDI clock on the same computer as Cantabile is running on. I create a port from MidiOx and output the sync, enable MIDI clock on that port in Cantabile but I still have the same problem. When I try in Forte everything works.
I don't want to have to switch to Forte as I have over 100 songs in Cantabile.
Regards Johan
I don't want to have to switch to Forte as I have over 100 songs in Cantabile.
Regards Johan
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 19 Jul, 2011
Hi all. Can someone please help 
me and recreate what I want to do and see if you have the same problem? It would be greatly appreciated.
1. If you have another computer, run Cantabile or any other application like Cubase, Ableton and send MIDI clock on a MIDI out port, this is what I do. You can also run it on the same computer. Set the tempo to something else than 120 (standard Cantabile tempo) e.g. 100 BPM.
2. Set up Cantabile to sync to incoming MIDI clock on the above mentioned MIDI port.
3. Load a VSTi with the possibility to run arpeggios or to be trigged. I use Native Instruments Pro 53 for the latter.
4. Check that Cantabile picks up the MIDI clock and adjusts to the tempo.
5. Without pressing play on the other computer, does the VSTi play at all?
6. Press play on the other computer, does the VSTi play at all?
Kind regards
me and recreate what I want to do and see if you have the same problem? It would be greatly appreciated. 1. If you have another computer, run Cantabile or any other application like Cubase, Ableton and send MIDI clock on a MIDI out port, this is what I do. You can also run it on the same computer. Set the tempo to something else than 120 (standard Cantabile tempo) e.g. 100 BPM.
2. Set up Cantabile to sync to incoming MIDI clock on the above mentioned MIDI port.
3. Load a VSTi with the possibility to run arpeggios or to be trigged. I use Native Instruments Pro 53 for the latter.
4. Check that Cantabile picks up the MIDI clock and adjusts to the tempo.
5. Without pressing play on the other computer, does the VSTi play at all?
6. Press play on the other computer, does the VSTi play at all?
Kind regards
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- KVRist
- 197 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
Hi - I was able to test this running Nuendo into Cantabile with Omnisphere arpeggiator and a sync'd Bionic delay. No problems. Works straight off the bat.
One thing to note when running two systems this way is that it is definitely going to help if you sync the word clocks too.
Can't work out why your plugins are not sync'ing though. Have u tried anything other than pro-53?
One thing to note when running two systems this way is that it is definitely going to help if you sync the word clocks too.
Can't work out why your plugins are not sync'ing though. Have u tried anything other than pro-53?
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- KVRist
- 197 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
Just to add, this works whether Nuendo is in play or stop. Cantabile just locks to the last tempo received and stays there - so not strictly in sync.
Cubase/Nuendo have an option to issue midi clock even when stopped which could help in your particular situation. Should work regardless though.
'so not strictly in sync'
Just want to qualify that by saying what else could Cantabile do? If there is no incoming midi clock from the master all Cantabile can do is use the last received value.
Cubase/Nuendo have an option to issue midi clock even when stopped which could help in your particular situation. Should work regardless though.
'so not strictly in sync'
Just want to qualify that by saying what else could Cantabile do? If there is no incoming midi clock from the master all Cantabile can do is use the last received value.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 19 Jul, 2011
Hi pinkcanaru. Many thanks for testing this. I still have problems so I need all the input I can get 
I've tried with different VSTi's so this is not only a problem with Pro-53.
This is the setups I've tried so far..
A.
1. Cubase on computer 1 acting as master. Sending MIDI CLOCK.
2. Cantabile on computer 2, listening to the MIDI-port with the MIDI CLOCK.
3. Canatbile's metronome set to Sync to incoming MIDI CLOCK.
4. Native Instruments Pro-53 with a bass sound, set to "TRIG" (8:th notes or 16:th notes no difference) and "MIDI SYNC".
5. Works fine until I press play in Cubase. Then the Pro-53 sounds like it would without the "TRIG"-function i.e. a "normal" bass sound.
B. Same as above but with Ableton on computer 1 as master. Same result
C. Same as above but with Cantabile on computer 1 as master. Same result
D. Same as above but with MidiOX generating MIDI CLOCK on the same computer as Cantabile, computer 2. Same result
E. Same as A but with the free MiniMogueVA instead of Pro-53. Same result
F. Same as B but with the free MiniMogueVA instead of Pro-53. Same result
In scenario A I've experimented a bit i Cubase with checking/unchecking the MTC tick boxes, but there is no difference.
I'm only interested the tempo, not song position or start/stop commands.
It seems like the problem is in connection with Cantabiles metronome because whatever I do on the master computer, when Cantabiles metronome starts running the VSTi stops responing to the tempo.
I've looked around in the forum and in the manual if there is a way to filter out start events from the MIDI In signal but haven't found anything.
Thanks again for testing Pinkcanaru
Cheers
I've tried with different VSTi's so this is not only a problem with Pro-53.
This is the setups I've tried so far..
A.
1. Cubase on computer 1 acting as master. Sending MIDI CLOCK.
2. Cantabile on computer 2, listening to the MIDI-port with the MIDI CLOCK.
3. Canatbile's metronome set to Sync to incoming MIDI CLOCK.
4. Native Instruments Pro-53 with a bass sound, set to "TRIG" (8:th notes or 16:th notes no difference) and "MIDI SYNC".
5. Works fine until I press play in Cubase. Then the Pro-53 sounds like it would without the "TRIG"-function i.e. a "normal" bass sound.
B. Same as above but with Ableton on computer 1 as master. Same result
C. Same as above but with Cantabile on computer 1 as master. Same result
D. Same as above but with MidiOX generating MIDI CLOCK on the same computer as Cantabile, computer 2. Same result
E. Same as A but with the free MiniMogueVA instead of Pro-53. Same result
F. Same as B but with the free MiniMogueVA instead of Pro-53. Same result
In scenario A I've experimented a bit i Cubase with checking/unchecking the MTC tick boxes, but there is no difference.
I'm only interested the tempo, not song position or start/stop commands.
It seems like the problem is in connection with Cantabiles metronome because whatever I do on the master computer, when Cantabiles metronome starts running the VSTi stops responing to the tempo.
I've looked around in the forum and in the manual if there is a way to filter out start events from the MIDI In signal but haven't found anything.
Thanks again for testing Pinkcanaru
Cheers
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- KVRist
- 197 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
I think there may be other issues happening with your setup. If you are hooked up correctly and we know this shouldwork then it's possible that maybe you have an issue with your midi interfaces.
What are you using?
What are you using?
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- KVRist
- 197 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
Have you tried syncing between two computers with apps which are NOT cantabile?
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- KVRist
- 197 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
I realize u have done all of the above. You see the clock and forte works. So it can't be hardware. Something else has got in the way But what?pinkcanaru wrote:Have you tried syncing between two computers with apps which are NOT cantabile?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 19 Jul, 2011
Hi. Sorry for not responding sooner, I've been abroad.
I think the problem is related to the transport/metronome in Cantabile.
If i don't press play on the other computer everything works fine.
But when I do press play the Cantabile transport/metronome starts running. Is there a way to prevent the transport to start running? Perhaps via MIDI filter?
I only want the plug in VSTi's to sync, no midifiles or audiofiles.
The reason I bought the Performer edition was the MIDI Sync, otherwise I would have managed with the Solo edition.
Regards
I think the problem is related to the transport/metronome in Cantabile.
If i don't press play on the other computer everything works fine.
But when I do press play the Cantabile transport/metronome starts running. Is there a way to prevent the transport to start running? Perhaps via MIDI filter?
I only want the plug in VSTi's to sync, no midifiles or audiofiles.
The reason I bought the Performer edition was the MIDI Sync, otherwise I would have managed with the Solo edition.
Regards
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- KVRist
- 197 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
Here's the thing - what is failing on your system works perfectly here. So there is some issue either with your installation or your configuration. Do you think that's a reasonable assessment ?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 19 Jul, 2011
Hi. I'm not sure of course, but I don't think there is a problem with installation. In short, what I want to do is to prevent Cantabile (when acting as slave) from running the transport/metronome when I press play on another computer. I only want to pick up the midi clock.
In Cantabile I can filter out almost anything (which I like) except transport commands. Or can I? Don't know how.
Regards
In Cantabile I can filter out almost anything (which I like) except transport commands. Or can I? Don't know how.
Regards