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ntom · Post by **ntom** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:25 pm

Something that I am certain goes to the very very basics of music theory...but why does the snare most commonly land on the 2 and 4 beat?
Is there some sort of theory behind this that can be applied to other time signatures?
Where does the snare land commonly on 3/4? 5/4? 6/8?

GeckoYamori · Post by **GeckoYamori** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:32 am

Symmetry? Accentuation?

For other time signatures you could listen to some prog rock which share many template rhythms in 5/4 or 7/8. Other than that there's old folk music and perhaps classical, but that stuff predates the modern drumkit.

Tight Snare · Post by **Tight Snare** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:15 am

It's more common in 4/4 time to write the kick on the 1 and the snare on the 3. You're just counting it at double speed (but it's the same beat).

This beat was originally called a backbeat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(music)#Backbeat

The answer to your question "why?" is "because it rocks"

2ZrgE · Post by **2ZrgE** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:11 pm

ntom wrote:Something that I am certain goes to the very very basics of music theory...but why does the snare most commonly land on the 2 and 4 beat?
Is there some sort of theory behind this that can be applied to other time signatures?
Where does the snare land commonly on 3/4? 5/4? 6/8?

I guess you have never danced in a club to house music?

Nystul · Post by **Nystul** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:58 pm

Tight Snare wrote:It's more common in 4/4 time to write the kick on the 1 and the snare on the 3.

Maybe if you are doing a slow jam or drumming for Celine Dion. To me it usually feels more like 2 and 4. But yeah you have strong beats with bass drum, harmony changes, etc and the snare is playing in opposition to that. This became the fashion with rock and roll and popular music has stuck with it for the most part since.

As far as other time signatures, in a 6/8 ballad you would likely have a snare accent on count two (the fourth eighth note in the measure). Other time signatures are not really characteristic to begin with. Waltzes have some established patterns, but something like 5/4 or 7/8 is going to depend on what the beat is actually doing in that piece of music. Listening to a prog track will only tell you what that particular drummer felt like doing on that particular song.

ntom · Post by **ntom** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:42 am

I wasn't entirely sure if there was a musical reason behind it at all. I mean, I know it sounds good, and of course not all the time does the snare land on 2 and 4 on 4/4, as someone mentioned, a lot of times it can land on 3.
Like I said, I was just curious if there was some theory behind the why other than it "just sounds good there"

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:23 am

It has to do with what goes best with the human walking cadence.
Watch the opening scene from Saturday Night Fever for reference.

Nystul · Post by **Nystul** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:36 am

I don't really think it's within the realm of music theory to explain why people like it. We get into the area of what defines the styles of certain types of music. You might say strong accents on the back beats became a defining feature of rock. Like distorted guitar riffs or whatever else. Snare drum is well suited to the role because it is snappy.. makes it's point and gets out of the way.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:28 am

It's a standard oscillation. Kick, snare, kick, snare, down, up, down, up. Lower frequences sound more like a foundation (hence "fundamental) and that's why I think the kick usually comes first. That also gives spectral space to the accents in the melody at the beginning and midpoint of each bar, allowing these important notes to be heard more clearly. This is of course pure theory and obviously doesn't take into account syncopation and style, but it's my theory on why K/S/K/S is the most basic beat.

ntom · Post by **ntom** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:07 am

mcnoone wrote:It has to do with what goes best with the human walking cadence.
Watch the opening scene from Saturday Night Fever for reference.

You know, I feel like I had heard that before. It makes sense, though.

And thanks Sendy! I think you're expansion of the theory behind it really helped kind of explain why on the 4/4.

So what about on odd time signatures where you couldn't create an even oscillation on strictly the down beats?
In fact, on this little ditty I did, I found the snare sounded best on the upbeat!
http://soundcloud.com/ntommusic/erins-ringtone

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:34 am

ntom wrote:Something that I am certain goes to the very very basics of music theory...but why does the snare most commonly land on the 2 and 4 beat?

it's a convention, of a style.

ntom wrote: Is there some sort of theory behind this that can be applied to other time signatures?
Where does the snare land commonly on 3/4? 5/4? 6/8?

no, there isn't really any simple principle in the convention of rock drumming in 4 to extrapolate from so as to apply to a different factored time.

3/4, waltz, typically snare on 2, 3.
5 is 3+2 or 2+3. or, you could be more interested in phrasing and say 2+2+1.

But, these are at bottom ways of metering the time. when do you do something [where's the snare]? when you get the idea to do something. the conventions for 4/4 per eg., 5/4? well, 4/4 is more conventional, you know. there is less conformity as you get away from it I reckon.

6/8 might be two dotted quarters, it might be a way of expressing 3/4 to give you a finer grid, it might be 4+2.
it might be a mixture of all the above. 'hemiola' 6/8 = 3/4 is interesting, emphasise it as the two dotted quarters, alternately as three quarters. I wanna be in Amer, i, ca.

9/8 might work like 3/4 + 3/8, it might be 2+3+2, could be 3+2+2...

"It's more common in 4/4 time to write the kick on the 1 and the snare on the 3." I doubt it. That's a half time feel. I like it a lot myself but it is probably quite a bit less common. Rock backbeat in 4/4 is 2 and 4 typically.

nix808 · Post by **nix808** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:48 am

I like the-
doof shh doof doof shh
1 3 5 6 7
myself.
I think that's right

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:09 am

ntom wrote:I found the snare sounded best on the upbeat!

so there's your reason.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:00 am

Tight Snare wrote:It's more common in 4/4 time to write the kick on the 1 and the snare on the 3. You're just counting it at double speed (but it's the same beat).

Got any examples of that? I can't remember seeing a transcription of a rock, pop or R&B song that had the music scored the way you've described and I can't think why it would be the case unless you're scoring for an oompah band.

monopoli · Post by **monopoli** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:33 am

mcnoone wrote:It has to do with what goes best with the human walking cadence.
Watch the opening scene from Saturday Night Fever for reference.

Why so humancentric? The same applies for aliens (apparantly)

Why the two and four? What about 3/4?