KVR Audio

MFXxx · Post by **MFXxx** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:55 pm

When are we going to see android apps from a lot of the devs out there

Come on Camel Audio, Spectronics and so on ...

With the advent of mobiles like the Samsung SII and quadcore it should be the format of choice.

Guessing half the world is branded with the i-look at me logo'd items which I understand has a large user base is more business opportunities.

But why are android being boycotted?

Peace

Goratrix · Post by **Goratrix** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:05 pm

MFXxx wrote: But why are android being boycotted?

It's not "being boycotted". Android unfortunately has a very crappy API for audio, which does not support low-latency applications. There is no point in developing high-profile audio apps for android until that gets fixed.

jensa · Post by **jensa** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:09 pm

Goratrix wrote:
MFXxx wrote: But why are android being boycotted?
It's not "being boycotted". Android unfortunately has a very crappy API for audio, which does not support low-latency applications. There is no point in developing high-profile audio apps for android until that gets fixed.

Sad but true.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:24 pm

Goratrix wrote:It's not "being boycotted". Android unfortunately has a very crappy API for audio, which does not support low-latency applications. There is no point in developing high-profile audio apps for android until that gets fixed.

Unfortunately, this is basically the reason.

@ MFXxx - Apple + iOS provides all of the basic functionality for low latency audio and MIDI. It's built in to the OS so that the developer basically says "get MIDI note" and "output audio". Nice and easy. It works on all devices.

With Android and the soon-to-be-released Windows 8 mobile platform these capabilities are not built in. This means developing the equivalent iOS audio app requires a significant amount of low level development work, and making sure the code works on all of the various Android / Windows phones and OS versions.

Yes we (and the other developers you mentioned) are capable of this but unfortunately we don't have the time to invest in the development, and possibly more time consuming - the huge amount of testing required.

This might change in the future, of course, but it's probably not going to happen for some time.

Peace,
Andy.

MFXxx · Post by **MFXxx** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:44 pm

Thanks for all the informative responses and thank you for the details Andy was hoping you' dial in. Maybe one day will have to wait. I don't want to give apple money for an iPad. Mrs's has a spare iPod Touch kicking around so may get that hooked in, will it work with the apps work with that? More interested in using the apps as controllers for the vsts than actual audio apps themselves.

PEace

ZombyWoof · Post by **ZombyWoof** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:01 pm

The new Android 4.1 (Jelly Bean) OS has supposedly made large strides toward reducing the audio latency problems. I read 10ms is now achievable, but it is highly dependent on the hardware - all Android phones are not created equal. More improvements should be made in future versions. Apple's SDK still has it beat hands down, but Google is starting to take audio applications seriously, which is good to hear. I just installed JellyBean a couple of hours ago, so I can't say anything yet, but it sounds promising at least that Android can be a viable platform for audio in the near future.

ObiWonder · Post by **ObiWonder** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:03 pm

jensa wrote:
Goratrix wrote:
MFXxx wrote: But why are android being boycotted?
It's not "being boycotted". Android unfortunately has a very crappy API for audio, which does not support low-latency applications. There is no point in developing high-profile audio apps for android until that gets fixed.
Sad but true.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:03 pm

has a spare iPod Touch

That sounds ideal for running (say) TouchOSC. I'm not sure if a server on the PC side is required, but it can output OSC messages converted to MIDI CC. You can design any combination of XY pads, sliders, etc. to control desktop synths with MIDI learn. Touch OSC is only a few dollars so it's hardly a major investment if things don't work out.

You will find the smaller iPod interface a bit restrictive in terms of movement, but it's a good start.

Peace,
Andy.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:20 pm

I can use my iPod touch to control Omnisphere's 8 presets. It's pretty cool, though I don't work that way.

jensa · Post by **jensa** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:20 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote:
has a spare iPod Touch
That sounds ideal for running (say) TouchOSC. I'm not sure if a server on the PC side is required, but it can output OSC messages converted to MIDI CC. You can design any combination of XY pads, sliders, etc. to control desktop synths with MIDI learn. Touch OSC is only a few dollars so it's hardly a major investment if things don't work out.

You will find the smaller iPod interface a bit restrictive in terms of movement, but it's a good start.

Peace,
Andy.

There's no difference in speed from iThings when using OSC applications from an Android device (a little hint/blink/nudge to Camel Audio).

There's TouchOSC for Android but the guy at hexler.net has gone missing when it comes to any news about a new version for Android. Very very frustrating. The present one is crippled to say the least since you can't use your own template.

Then there's TouchDAW with some templates for different.... DAWs.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:51 pm

There's no difference in speed from iThings when using OSC applications from an Android device (a little hint/blink/nudge to Camel Audio).

Yes I / we realise that. Android apps are out there to prove that it's possible. What Goggle (and MS for Win phones) need to provide is a standard API so that developers can make use of low latency MIDI and audio without having to write low level code.

Not only that, they need to guarantee that it works on all devices so we don't we end up support emails saying "your app doesn't work on my obscure Chinese Android clone running Jelly Bean 4.x.2.1.y".

And of course the elephant in the room that barely rates a mention while we wait for the above to be sorted out is piracy. Yes it exists on iOS but it's no where near Android levels. Obviously I'm not accusing you or anyone else of this but it's factor that cannot be ignored ...

Peace,
Andy.

mcnelson · Post by **mcnelson** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:09 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote: Not only that, they need to guarantee that it works on all devices so we don't we end up support emails saying "your app doesn't work on my obscure Chinese Android clone running Jelly Bean 4.x.2.1.y".

But isn't that the point of Android? That it doesn't conform to a particular hardware platform? iOS has an inherent advantage in that Apple controls the Hardware; Android isn't controlled in the same sense. You get slow and crappy Android devices, and you get blazing fast quad core monster Android devices. Jelly Bean is making great strides I hear, but the kind of compatibility you seek is a long way off I suspect.

Just my 7 Zimbabwean Dollars.

jensa · Post by **jensa** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:20 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote:And of course the elephant in the room that barely rates a mention while we wait for the above to be sorted out is piracy. Yes it exists on iOS but it's no where near Android levels. Obviously I'm not accusing you or anyone else of this but it's factor that cannot be ignored ...

We'll I'm as usual a little bit reluctant to generalize too much when it comes the FUD-media reports not really discerning from where in the world the acts of piracy is committed. If you really dig down into some more data you'll notice that it's the countries and regions that DON'T have and Android Market the absolute majority of the piracy crimes are committed. In those countries you wouldn't sell it anyway since they haven't got an Android Market so no lost sales from them.

I don't know how many Alchemies you've sold in China for example, but in the western countries there's no way I can believe that the piracy is so widespread that you really can use that as an excuse anymore. Especially in a specialized area like "controllers". Of course, please do correct me if I'm wrong regarding the numbers.

Don't forget 1.3 million Android activations per day. Don't you want to eat any of that pie at all?

Cheers to Camel Audio anyway!

jensa · Post by **jensa** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:22 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote:Not only that, they need to guarantee that it works on all devices so we don't we end up support emails saying "your app doesn't work on my obscure Chinese Android clone running Jelly Bean 4.x.2.1.y".

Well, you do, as a content producer, actively choose what specs the device have to have to be able to install on it.

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:59 am

mcnelson wrote:
ZenPunkHippy wrote: Not only that, they need to guarantee that it works on all devices so we don't we end up support emails saying "your app doesn't work on my obscure Chinese Android clone running Jelly Bean 4.x.2.1.y".
But isn't that the point of Android? That it doesn't conform to a particular hardware platform? iOS has an inherent advantage in that Apple controls the Hardware; Android isn't controlled in the same sense. You get slow and crappy Android devices, and you get blazing fast quad core monster Android devices. Jelly Bean is making great strides I hear, but the kind of compatibility you seek is a long way off I suspect.

Just my 7 Zimbabwean Dollars.

wow, nice how marketing works. the point is, you need a monster to get anything out of a java based platform with garbage collection. it needs those specs to be able to vast performance for garbage collection and intermediate code. that is one reason why Microsoft with windows 8 goes back to c++ (from c# and .net)

ok, audio apps can be written in c++, but in an multi-tasking environment where other apps still run in java ....

best

Android - when will the serous dev's get up with the best ... Alchemy, Spectrasonics, others