KVR Audio

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:38 pm

We are a duo looking to create eclectic (we don't care about genre) IMPROVISED music in the bedroom studio. Neither of us have any drumming experience, and we dislike drum programming in general. We are searching for a way to have beats that evolve as we play our (non-percussive) instruments. That is, not drum loops, and not something we have to program in advance, but something that tosses out whatever patterns (just anything) and these patterns change as we improvise.

Is there a computer (or iPhone) software or separate device that can do this? I looked into the kaossilator and liked its drum patterns but not sure whether it can be generative/evolving.

When I asked this question at gearslutz board, I got answers that are way out of our budget: Cirklon, Spectralis, Elektron Machindrum... I'm looking for something cheaper (fire away if you know of software/VST(i) as well).

Thanks in advance.

engine · Post by **engine** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:50 pm

http://www.five12.com/ numerology

and maybe Mdrummer with its rhythm system
http://www.meldaproduction.com/mdrummer/

there are a few reaktor ensembles too.
or you can look into eucledian stuff e.g.: http://www.shuriken.se/?page_id=97

or check noatikl http://intermorphic.com/tools/noatikl/

EDIT: but theres no free solution to this (afaik). oops eckel is free, hehe.

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:52 pm

Thanks for the link. We are not on MAC (though we might push if need be). So at least for now, Five12 numerology is not possible!

Had never heard of the MDrummer, thanks!

Noatikl 2 is 50 USD, I can definitely afford that if it does what I need. I'm fine paying for software, just can't afford so much gear AND software if each piece is like 200 USD.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:00 pm

Or you could check the Reaktor user library if you have Reaktor. I'm sure I remember at least a couple of things that do just this.

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:09 pm

Reaktor is 125 USD, also affordable, but I've never used it, and let's see if there's something I need a lesser learning curve for.

ZombyWoof · Post by **ZombyWoof** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:35 pm

Rayzoon Jamstix is definitely worth looking at. Set it up to run in audio jam mode after dialing in your preferred drummer, style, and kit.

http://www.rayzoon.com/

Proxima4 · Post by **Proxima4** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:01 pm

rpm wrote:Reaktor is 125 USD, also affordable, but I've never used it, and let's see if there's something I need a lesser learning curve for.

Reaktor Player 'Free' comes with 'NuSkool' drum machine, download it, use it then come back to the this thread and tell us what you think..

Proxima4 · Post by **Proxima4** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:02 pm

Proxima4 wrote:
rpm wrote:Reaktor is 125 USD, also affordable, but I've never used it, and let's see if there's something I need a lesser learning curve for.
Reaktor Player 'Free' comes with 'NuSkool' drum machine, download it, use it then come back to the this thread and tell us what you think..

for what you are after, I reckon you could just automate the controls through midi, to make some interesting pattern changes

DenisArturia · Post by **DenisArturia** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:29 pm

Hey,

I think that the Arturia Spark might be a good solution for you. Each kit comes with 64 patterns and there are more than 150 kits of all genre (house, dubstep, trance, techno, hip hop, vintage drum machines, accoustic, industrial, experimental...). Of course you can blend the kits all together. You can for exemple choose a project and press the "song" button so it will play the patterns in a pre-programmer order. The pattern will change by themselve and you will be able to focus on your other instruments while the drum machine does its job.

If you want to interact with Spark then you will see that it's great when used live (FX pad, looper...). Also each pad has its own 3 encoders to tweak the sound and you can change the parameter assigned to the encoder (pitch, decay, lfo rate, osc mix...). Spark has 34 encoders!!!
The reason why we choose to have all these encoders (yes I work at Arturia) is definitely because we think that electronic music about about evolving sounds.

You will also love to solo one instrument directly from the hardware...then add a second one...then slowly open the cut off on a third one.

Thanks to the quantization option (on/off) you don't need drummer skills to play. In addition the sequencer on the top allows you to edit your pattern without even touching the pads. You select an instrument by pressing select + pad and then you see the pattern on the sequencer.

You can give a try to the demo version but keep in mind that the software is really made to be used with the hardware:

All the best,

Denis

seismic1 · Post by **seismic1** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:32 pm

Maybe try Cubix by Psychic Modulation, or if that doesn't go far enough, how about erratic 2 from delaMancha.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:03 am

engine wrote:http://www.five12.com/ numerology

and maybe Mdrummer with its rhythm system
http://www.meldaproduction.com/mdrummer/

there are a few reaktor ensembles too.
or you can look into eucledian stuff e.g.: http://www.shuriken.se/?page_id=97

or check noatikl http://intermorphic.com/tools/noatikl/

EDIT: but theres no free solution to this (afaik). oops eckel is free, hehe.

I like mDrummer quite a lot, though it's not that great for evolving beats, but good for "seeding" a beat and having the software fill in the rest of the parts. I know it's set up to react to other midi channels to "jam" but I felt that Jamstix was better in this respect, though I've often had trouble getting Jamstix to work well inside of Live.

I looked at the intermorphic tools a long time ago and it seemed really promising but, if I remember correctly, it wasn't a VSTi. It was a stand alone app that had to be run alongside of Live with a MIDI routing tool running as well. It was really clumsy, but I should look at it again because it seemed perfect for my evolving ambient live looping thing I do.

[edit]I just looked at the Noatikl 2 page and it seems as if it is a VSTi now. I'll have to give this another go when I get back from NYC.

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:27 am

Axon by Audio Damage might be worth a Arab.

http://www.audiodamage.com/instruments/ ... ?pid=AD026

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:31 pm

Proxima4 wrote:
Proxima4 wrote:
rpm wrote:Reaktor is 125 USD, also affordable, but I've never used it, and let's see if there's something I need a lesser learning curve for.
Reaktor Player 'Free' comes with 'NuSkool' drum machine, download it, use it then come back to the this thread and tell us what you think..
for what you are after, I reckon you could just automate the controls through midi, to make some interesting pattern changes

With the last reply about automation, are you still referring to Reaktor/Nu Skool, or is it something independent of that. Not sure exactly what/how to automate but I will play around and see when I get a chance. Thanks!

rpm · Post by **rpm** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:48 pm

cytospur wrote:Axon by Audio Damage might be worth a Arab.

http://www.audiodamage.com/instruments/ ... ?pid=AD026

This looks interesting, couldn't find a demo/trial version. There is also Tattoo by the same company, which seems like it could do what I need (it has a "randomization" feature). Why did you recommend Axon over Tattoo? Do you have experience with the latter? Thanks!

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:03 pm

DELETED

generative/evolving drum patterns