KVR Audio

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:34 pm

As I just installed Cubase (6.5.4) in its 64 bits flavour and after pondering for a while about which one to choose among these 64 bits VSTi Drims :
- Superior Drummer 2.3
- Addictive drum 1.5
- Steven Slate Drums 4
- Melda Mdrummer 4
- BFD2 2.3 (download version with 20 bits samples)

I think I made my choice : it will probably be the last one, unless there are issues that could prevent me from doing so, such as instability when used with Cubase (or others 64 bits hosts), too much CPU resources used, downloading / registration issues or whatever...

So, feel free to chime in about it. Thanks...

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:39 pm

How many days will that download take? Installation from DVD even takes forever.

Nanakai · Post by **Nanakai** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:06 am

I haven't used it in Cubase, but I make extensive use of BFD2 in both Live and Logic. Works just fine, but the download version is a lower bit-rate than the box version. Unless you're some sort of wunderkind, you won't be able to tell the difference, but it's just something to be aware of.

I've never had problems with FXpansion's C/R system, but others have. I think it's rare, but it could happen.

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:03 am

Thanks for your answers !

Yes, I admit that the download process (ssems that there are 15 Gb of compressed data) still makes me hesitate a little. Just hope that the download is done with several files and not as a whole. Guess that it will take me around 4-5 hours. Anyone who did it already ?

Maybe it's better to purchase a boxed version, but I'm afraid that there won't be the 2.3 in it (which is recent and the only 64 bits one). And, as I'm sometimes completely childish, I will be able to use my toy more quickly.

About the bit-rate, well, 20 bits instead of 24 isn't a problem, IMO : still 120 dB of dynamic range left...

And I'm thinking of what is maybe a positive aspect of it : it could be that both the memory used and the disk access amount are reduced. I don't know...

Nanakai · Post by **Nanakai** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:16 am

cubic13 wrote:Thanks for your answers !

yes, I admit that the download process (ssems that there are 15 Gb of compressed data) still makes me hesitate a little. Just hope that the download is done with several files and not as a whole. Guess that it will take me around 4-5 hours. Anyone who did it already ?

Yeah, it's broken up into multiple files. I have 4 total that I downloaded before the 2.3 update, which was another (small) file to download later on. The data files are 3.32gb each and the update is 48mb. I suggest some sort of download assistant.

Maybe it's better to purchase a boxed version, but I'm afraid that there won't be the 2.3 in it (which is recent and the only 64 bits one). And, as I'm sometimes completely childish, I will be able to use my toy more quickly.

About the bit-rate, well, 20 bits instead of 24 isn't a problem, IMO : still 120 dB of dynamic range left...

I'm glad you think so, too (I see you had that in your OP, sorry). Really, unless you have seriously slow download speeds, I can't think of a reason to get the boxed version. The included effects are fantastic - the 2.3 update added the PSP Vintage Warmer to the line up.

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:23 am

I think you just helped to definitely make my mind, Nanakai..

Thanks again !

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:24 pm

OK, I took the plunge and just purchased the download version of BFD2. So, I thought that it could be useful to give my first impressions.

It took me 3 hours and 10 minutes to download everything : the 4 data contents files (more or less 3.2 Gb each, as Nanakai said), and the 2.3.0.38 installer, which is about 50 Mb.

First issue which is probably my bad : I tried to install the data contents first and after uncompressing everything (which took a while), I got a message, something like "Please be sure that the BFD2 program is installed before going further'. Grrrr ! So, cancelation and back to the BFD2 installer. During the process, which is quite quick, you have to specify where is the data contents, even if it isn't installed. I choosed G:\BFD2 (on my second drive). So, it is mandatory to launch the BFD2 installer before the data contents one. Would have liked a warning from Fxpansion about this...

Once done, I had to relaunch the data content installer : about 10 minutes for installing everything, choosing the 'large' format.

After this, the first thing I did was to go in the licence manager. I choosed the 'automatic' way (via internet on the present system) and it went flawlessly in no more than one minute : just had to copy/paste my serial number, after entering my account login and password.

Now, time for music : I tried to load BFD2 in its standalone state and stumbled on a second issue. Everything seemed to work, loading the BFD2 Default preset and starting the groove that is in it, with obviously something played, viewing the mixer. Problem : no sound, even after checking that the audio was correctly routed to the E-Mu ASIO device. Something is wrong, here, and I'll have to look more closely where is the problem. Not a biggy, though : I didn't purchased it for this usage.

So, I launched Cubase with an empty project and loaded BFD2 via the 'VST instruments' window (F11) to get a MIDI + VST combination, this, with the same BFD2 preset. Wow ! The sound is here and utterly satisfying. Playing just a while with the 'OH', 'Room' and 'Amb 3' buses faders gives a lot of possibilities on the final results and I don't even talk about tweaking the EQ settings.

Third (and last) issue : at a point, I realized that I launched Cubase while still on my administrator account. So, I closed everything and changed to my current user one and here, I had to relaunch the licence manager to register BFD2 again, after getting a message that stated that the licence could not be found. Seems that you have to register for every account you have on your system. Not really user friendly, but well...

Another point : don't try to activate the 'Load all to RAM' option unless you have, at least, 12 Gb installed. I tried different BFD2 presets with this activated and they are all taking more or less 6-7 Gb of memory. With this option unchecked, the RAM used falls down to more or less 800 Mb, this, with no significant additional strain on disk access. Beside this, I was dreading the CPU usage and was wrong : seems that my 'old' i7-870 is easily able to cope with BFD2 (around 5 % of CPU usage). I was relieved to see this, as I read in several places that BFD2 was a CPU hog. Has there been optimizations, since ? I don't know...

To sum all this : AFAICS, a stable and beautifuly sounding acoustic drums plug-in with a reasonable resources consumption, after all. Utterly pleased with it, so far, but I'm for at least few weeks to get the grip on it, considering all the settings and features available. Coming from Jamstix, and not being a drum specialist (far from it), it's really a new world to explore.

Cheers !

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:05 am

"Old i7??" BFD works fine on my 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo

Though I still think it's best to render to audio and freeze or remove it after the drumming is all set in stone

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:24 am

[double post]

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:46 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:"Old i7??" BFD works fine on my 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo

Though I still think it's best to render to audio and freeze or remove it after the drumming is all set in stone

Core 2 Duo ? This is ancient...

Makes me remember the good old days with my E-6750, few years ago...

EDIT
About the Engine setup page : any suggestions about the most efficient settings for the 'Stream' and 'RAM' buffers parameters ? The manual states that the lower the values, the better (less RAM used), but as I have 16 Gb of memory I'm wondering if it's not better to specify high values for these. A little confusing...

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:03 am

The only thing wrong with the D/L version of BFD2 is that the files are 20 bit !

FXpansion want to move everything to DL only and they want to save $$$ on the server,so they came up with this idea that there's no real difference between 20 and 24 bit,so it would be cool to have their premier product reduced to a lower bit rate..

Personally,I think that it's criminal....

Why record a great drum library in one of the best studios in the world using the best of everything and then xxxx it all up at the final hurdle ?

I bought the DVD version of BFD2 after being a Superior user since the dark ages and I'm really happy with the FXpansion product..

It's my favourite virtual drummer...

But if the only option was to use their cheap shot D/L option with the reduced bitrate files,I'd be really disappointed and I wouldn't buy the product

kbaccki · Post by **kbaccki** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:15 pm

digitalboytn wrote:The only thing wrong with the D/L version of BFD2 is that the files are 20 bit !

FXpansion want to move everything to DL only and they want to save $$$ on the server,so they came up with this idea that there's no real difference between 20 and 24 bit,so it would be cool to have their premier product reduced to a lower bit rate..

Personally,I think that it's criminal....

Why record a great drum library in one of the best studios in the world using the best of everything and then xxxx it all up at the final hurdle ?

The practical limit of the best ADC equipment available is 120dB... so don't worry about the bits that were never there to begin with.

ericj23 · Post by **ericj23** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:11 pm

kbaccki wrote:
digitalboytn wrote:The only thing wrong with the D/L version of BFD2 is that the files are 20 bit !

FXpansion want to move everything to DL only and they want to save $$$ on the server,so they came up with this idea that there's no real difference between 20 and 24 bit,so it would be cool to have their premier product reduced to a lower bit rate..

Personally,I think that it's criminal....

Why record a great drum library in one of the best studios in the world using the best of everything and then xxxx it all up at the final hurdle ?
The practical limit of the best ADC equipment available is 120dB... so don't worry about the bits that were never there to begin with.

+1 Really high quality recording of noise doesn't affect anything

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:04 pm

I'm with kbaccki on this : 20 bits means 120 dB of dynamic range. Do I really need 144 dB for a bedroom studio owner like me ? Considering the sounds quality, I don't think I can expect more than what I have at disposal.

Makes me remember nearly 30 years back when CDs were just released : the quality was considered as the ultimate ever needed, even and especially by classic music aficionados. The CDs catalogs were full of these kind of recordings ; the rock and popular music catched up only few years after. I think it says enough...

Back to BFD2 (think this thread is slowly derailing to a 'BFD2 for noobs' one...). Two questions :

- Could someone tell me how the 'Follow' and 'Focus' switches in the 'Grooves' page work ? Doesn't seem to 'follow' or 'focus' anything as the manual state it. Maybe I missed something or there is a mysterious and well hidden setting somewhere...

- In a more 'hardware' aspect, could something like this : http://www.alesis.com/controlpad
bring a significantly better control on the sounds and/or ease of play over my present Akai MPD32 controller ?

Beside this, I already set the latter for BFD2. I must give a kudo to FxPansion for giving us such a key mapping tool : the drag & drop of kit pieces over the keys, with the ability to instantly choose the articulation is as straightforward as can be. It makes key mapping (almost) a pleasure...

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:11 pm

digitalboytn wrote:The only thing wrong with the D/L version of BFD2 is that the files are 20 bit !

FXpansion want to move everything to DL only and they want to save $$$ on the server,so they came up with this idea that there's no real difference between 20 and 24 bit,so it would be cool to have their premier product reduced to a lower bit rate..

Personally,I think that it's criminal....

Why record a great drum library in one of the best studios in the world using the best of everything and then xxxx it all up at the final hurdle ?

I bought the DVD version of BFD2 after being a Superior user since the dark ages and I'm really happy with the FXpansion product..

It's my favourite virtual drummer...

But if the only option was to use their cheap shot D/L option with the reduced bitrate files,I'd be really disappointed and I wouldn't buy the product

Heya Digitalboytn! Drew @ FXpansion here

You're the only person out of hundreds of BFD2-download owners who has ever made an issue of the 20-bit thing.

For the record, not all of our downloadable expansion packs are 20bit. Most of the smaller packs are 24bit. BFD2 was put out as 20bit A: as a test for deployment of a download this size and B: to save the user longer download times. Saving money wasn't really part of the criteria, as we get a pretty good rate for our downloads anyway.

Each product says in the description pages whether it is 24bit or 20bit. If it doesn't, please let us know and we'll correct the omission!

We've had this conversation a few times on the FXpansion forums, and with all due respect, there just isn't any appreciable sonic difference between 20bit and 24bit. It's a very worthwhile trade off to lose minimal headroom (which is all noisefloor anyway) in favour of quicker downloads for our users.

The boxed product is still available also. So we've given users the freedom to decide what they want - instant download of 20bit audio, or a slight wait for a boxed product which is 24bit.

I'm about to purchase BFD2 (download version)... Update : done and first results.