KVR Audio

xhunaudio · Post by **xhunaudio** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:31 am

Hello,

I started this topic to try to get people/supporters/developers involved about a project regarding the future of Synthedit and its - necessary - cross-platform support.

After talking with Jeff McClintock, we agree that several ideas/approaches are possible, for example Crowd Funding (on the Kickstarter model) to support Jeff's new GUI development (from the ground on). But one of the best, most affordable, quickest way has been suggested by Jeff himself, and it involves the Sonicbirth open source project - wich in the last months had a 're-Birth' in the development.

This idea consist in a two-step approach:

1)
Create a version of the Sonicbirth open source project to join the SE SDK specs.

2)
Add support for loading SynthEdit project files or getting SynthEdit to export a XML project file that SonicBirth could read.

At now the Synthedit SDK is full cross-platform (on the DSP side, not the GUI side - but SonicBirth already has graphics elements, so it is not a problem).

The scenario is to have two (or more - SynthEdit for Windows, SonicBirth for OSX, ...or maybe also for Linux in the future...) IDEs sharing the same DSP modules technology. It is somethig better than having several, incomplete IDEs and simpler than demanding a single developer to make everything himself.

So the idea is basically to join forces instead to take different ways. Everyone would benefit of this join, from SynthEdit itself to SonicBirth to independent developers. Jeff states that 'two-step approach' is very simple and quick to realize.

So the first question : is anybody (developer) here interstested in supporting this open source project?

PS : Obviously if anybody has a better idea for having a strong, cross-platform pro audio development IDE, they're well accepted, feel free to post it and let us know!

Thank you so much for your attention,
bruno

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:04 pm

Seems a very good idea!
Plus both world can take advantages of the other app's modules arsenal.
a.

chuck death · Post by **chuck death** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:31 pm

I can't help, I only own PCs, but I do like the idea. In fact I'd like to see SEMs become a standard module format in all modular hosts.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:54 pm

Interesting concept. If this happened, would the last decade of Windows-only SynthEdit VSTs be ported to Audio Unit? That'd be incredible.

chuck death · Post by **chuck death** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:57 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:Interesting concept. If this happened, would the last decade of Windows-only SynthEdit VSTs be ported to Audio Unit? That'd be incredible.

No. Lots of developers are no longer around and without them (or their original source files) their projects won't be updated. There will also probably be a number of modules that cannot be used on Macs (those using windows specific GUI code for example).

mellotronaut · Post by **mellotronaut** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:03 am

DaLaMancha, Ugo, Xoxos et al. on mac?

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:17 am

chuck death wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:Interesting concept. If this happened, would the last decade of Windows-only SynthEdit VSTs be ported to Audio Unit? That'd be incredible.
No. Lots of developers are no longer around and without them (or their original source files) their projects won't be updated. There will also probably be a number of modules that cannot be used on Macs (those using windows specific GUI code for example).

The missing developers thing, yeah, I already have that problem on Windows. Hah. Windows-only code: blah, but I guess it's equally annoying for [anything]-only code to users not using that OS.

xhunaudio · Post by **xhunaudio** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:20 pm

Hello,

sure, it would not be a simple 'load-old-projects-and-compile'.

Devs have to port some codes/constructs but it would be a HUGE step forward having a compatible OSX IDE.

And/or there are also other ways.

If Jeff accepts, a Crowd funding can be set up, to let him reach the required fundings for a new cross-platform GUI for Synthedit.

Crowd funding for many not-so-interesting projects let to reach 10000's dollars in the past...

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:32 pm

why do people always think that 'open sourcing' a project magically solves something?

xhunaudio · Post by **xhunaudio** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:37 pm

Hi,

not talking about open-sourcing itself (Synthedit project is not open-source and there are no plans to make it). Just trying a different way trough an open source project (SonicBirth) to cut off the dev times for something long awaited (OSX).

By the way in a certain way I agree - I would prefer Jeff to hold an entire new cross-platform SE GUI concept/project, because of his talent as a developer and obviously because no one knows SE architecture like him. But he will start considering this 'great change' after if he will find fundings to make it. So I suggested Crowd Funding. It often can be very effective to make things come true.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:27 pm

Yes, I think that the idea is interesting but maybe adds too much uncertainty and complexity by relying on a third party. As a Mac convert, I'd rather see SynthEdit ported straight to OS X. But I understand the desire to look at different ways of approaching things. It's a challenge. I'm glad Jeff is tackling the GUI redesign and expressing interest in Mac OS at all. I was never comfortable with SynthEdit's current GUI. But I'm not a hard core synth designer. I'd rather have higher level stuff to plug into each other with less demand to think like an engineer. Nothing but actual modular synth hardware works that way and I'm not able to afford that.

xhunaudio · Post by **xhunaudio** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:26 pm

Synthedit has a very complete and stable GUI design, the only 'limitation' is that it is based on .net framework and then windows only.

Yes I also would like a direct involvement of Jeff in this project for the reasons I wrote above. And also because seem that SonicBirth has some intrinsic incompatibilities with the Synthedit SDK as its author stated here :

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366646

(it is a thread parallel to this)

Jeff McClintock · Post by **Jeff McClintock** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:37 am

xhunaudio wrote:Synthedit has a very complete and stable GUI design, the only 'limitation' is that it is based on .net framework and then windows only.

Yes I also would like a direct involvement of Jeff in this project for the reasons I wrote above. And also because seem that SonicBirth has some intrinsic incompatibilities with the Synthedit SDK as its author stated here :

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366646

(it is a thread parallel to this)

Hmm, It's says Sonic Birth 2.0 is single-sample based. (SE is block-based). Nonetheless, if you want to support block-based within a sample-based system you can. It would be the same challenge if you wanted to support audio-unit plugins inside sonic birth (which would also be useful).
You can run SE modules in single-sample setups, I have tried it, does increase the CPU though.

xhunaudio · Post by **xhunaudio** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:59 pm

Jeff McClintock wrote: Hmm, It's says Sonic Birth 2.0 is single-sample based. (SE is block-based). Nonetheless, if you want to support block-based within a sample-based system you can. It would be the same challenge if you wanted to support audio-unit plugins inside sonic birth (which would also be useful).
You can run SE modules in single-sample setups, I have tried it, does increase the CPU though.

Hi Jeff,

so that sample/buffer based difference is not a big 'issue' and a slowed CPU performance should be only in editing mode - then once projects are compiled/exported to the final VST or AU plugin, all is 'converted' to a buffer based form (tell me if I'm correct).

lalo · Post by **lalo** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:19 pm

xhunaudio wrote:
Jeff McClintock wrote: Hmm, It's says Sonic Birth 2.0 is single-sample based. (SE is block-based). Nonetheless, if you want to support block-based within a sample-based system you can. It would be the same challenge if you wanted to support audio-unit plugins inside sonic birth (which would also be useful).
You can run SE modules in single-sample setups, I have tried it, does increase the CPU though.
Hi Jeff,

so that sample/buffer based difference is not a big 'issue' and a slowed CPU performance should be only in editing mode - then once projects are compiled/exported to the final VST or AU plugin, all is 'converted' to a buffer based form (tell me if I'm correct).

An exported plugin always work at a buffer level.
But i guess that if you do 1-sample feedback stuff in the development enviroment do build i.e. filters those calculation will be kept at a sub-buffer level. the audio stream from plugin to host and viceversa will work at buffer level.

The Future of Synthedit (OSX)