Sega Genesis/Megadrive style instruments in NI's FM8

How to make that sound...
SFtheWolf
KVRer
10 posts since 1 Jan, 2013

Post Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:59 pm

I love the sound of 16-bit-gaming-era FM synths to pieces. I want to make music and sound effects stylistically similar to those in the Sonic the Hedgehog series for example.

The Megadrive's chipset is quite similar to that in the Yamaha FB-01 which I also own. If someone knows of a ridiculously obscure way to automatically (or manually but objectively) replicate FB-01 instruments in FM8 that would be ideal.

But in general I'd just really appreciate some advice on how to replicate this era of sound, both in terms of the FM programming, and in composition style.
"Operating the FM8 on Mac or Windows machines is identical, with some slight differences"

dusted william
KVRAF
4776 posts since 18 Dec, 2000

Post Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:08 pm

I'd like to know as well.

dw

Asuyuka
KVRist
409 posts since 27 Apr, 2006

Post Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:49 pm

Not that I have any experience with FM8, but if you grab a copy of the VST VOPM, and VGM2OPM, you could do conversions. The former can load any instrument files converted to its preset files, using the second program. Follow the operators, etc.

Or, just use VOPM. :)

VOPM is an emulation of the YM2149 (excuse dyscalcula if I got this wrong), and VGMs basically act as Genesis music files. You could convert instruments from the actual game tracks and use them directly through VOPM itself, maybe tinker with them, as a start. :)

SFtheWolf
KVRer
10 posts since 1 Jan, 2013

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:24 am

Asuyuka wrote:Not that I have any experience with FM8, but if you grab a copy of the VST VOPM, and VGM2OPM, you could do conversions. The former can load any instrument files converted to its preset files, using the second program. Follow the operators, etc.

Or, just use VOPM. :)

VOPM is an emulation of the YM2149 (excuse dyscalcula if I got this wrong), and VGMs basically act as Genesis music files. You could convert instruments from the actual game tracks and use them directly through VOPM itself, maybe tinker with them, as a start. :)
Thanks for the suggestion! My problem is that I use Logic and I've not found any stable way to get VOPM working reliably in OS X. Plus, it shares limitations with the original hardware, and I prefer for those to be optional so I can decide on a case by case basis whether the vintage qualities add to something artistically.

Now concerning the "follow the operators etc." part; Do you mean that replicating those sounds in FM8 would just be a matter of visually replicating the modulation matrix as it's displayed in VOPM? Is it really that simple?

Concerning the VGM files; Do you know if what you suggest is considered fair game among musicians? It struck me as dishonest to rip instruments from commercial games and then use them for my own commercial purposes, even if the final product was several degrees removed from the original. It feels kind of like "tracing", but if I'm wrong please tell me as that would make things a lot easier.
"Operating the FM8 on Mac or Windows machines is identical, with some slight differences"

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Sendy
KVRAF
5230 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:28 am

SFtheWolf wrote:
Asuyuka wrote:Not that I have any experience with FM8, but if you grab a copy of the VST VOPM, and VGM2OPM, you could do conversions. The former can load any instrument files converted to its preset files, using the second program. Follow the operators, etc.

Or, just use VOPM. :)

VOPM is an emulation of the YM2149 (excuse dyscalcula if I got this wrong), and VGMs basically act as Genesis music files. You could convert instruments from the actual game tracks and use them directly through VOPM itself, maybe tinker with them, as a start. :)
Thanks for the suggestion! My problem is that I use Logic and I've not found any stable way to get VOPM working reliably in OS X. Plus, it shares limitations with the original hardware, and I prefer for those to be optional so I can decide on a case by case basis whether the vintage qualities add to something artistically.

Now concerning the "follow the operators etc." part; Do you mean that replicating those sounds in FM8 would just be a matter of visually replicating the modulation matrix as it's displayed in VOPM? Is it really that simple?

Concerning the VGM files; Do you know if what you suggest is considered fair game among musicians? It struck me as dishonest to rip instruments from commercial games and then use them for my own commercial purposes, even if the final product was several degrees removed from the original. It feels kind of like "tracing", but if I'm wrong please tell me as that would make things a lot easier.
Study the patch and see how it works, then build something from scratch that resembles it. Ain't no law 'gainst lernin' from uvvas 8)
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!

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discoDSP
KVRAF
4077 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from Spain, Europe

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:29 am

I'd recommend to try Phantom if you are looking for those Yamaha sounds — http://www.discodsp.com/phantom/

SFtheWolf
KVRer
10 posts since 1 Jan, 2013

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:13 am

Sendy wrote:Study the patch and see how it works, then build something from scratch that resembles it. Ain't no law 'gainst lernin' from uvvas 8)
Fair point. The more I look into it the more that FM programming doesn't seem like rocket science. I guess I was intimidated by all the horror stories I read about how unfathomable it was, but maybe they were written by people too used to the workflow of just twisting knobs at random until something sounds right.
george wrote:I'd recommend to try Phantom if you are looking for those Yamaha sounds — http://www.discodsp.com/phantom/
What does it do that FM8 can't? Were you suggesting it namely for the SysEx data import feature?
"Operating the FM8 on Mac or Windows machines is identical, with some slight differences"

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discoDSP
KVRAF
4077 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from Spain, Europe

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:18 am

SFtheWolf wrote:What does it do that FM8 can't? Were you suggesting it namely for the SysEx data import feature?
Yes, it can import classic Yamaha 4 operator SysEx.

Asuyuka
KVRist
409 posts since 27 Apr, 2006

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:57 am

Sendy wrote:
SFtheWolf wrote:
Asuyuka wrote:Not that I have any experience with FM8, but if you grab a copy of the VST VOPM, and VGM2OPM, you could do conversions. The former can load any instrument files converted to its preset files, using the second program. Follow the operators, etc.

Or, just use VOPM. :)

VOPM is an emulation of the YM2149 (excuse dyscalcula if I got this wrong), and VGMs basically act as Genesis music files. You could convert instruments from the actual game tracks and use them directly through VOPM itself, maybe tinker with them, as a start. :)
Thanks for the suggestion! My problem is that I use Logic and I've not found any stable way to get VOPM working reliably in OS X. Plus, it shares limitations with the original hardware, and I prefer for those to be optional so I can decide on a case by case basis whether the vintage qualities add to something artistically.

Now concerning the "follow the operators etc." part; Do you mean that replicating those sounds in FM8 would just be a matter of visually replicating the modulation matrix as it's displayed in VOPM? Is it really that simple?

Concerning the VGM files; Do you know if what you suggest is considered fair game among musicians? It struck me as dishonest to rip instruments from commercial games and then use them for my own commercial purposes, even if the final product was several degrees removed from the original. It feels kind of like "tracing", but if I'm wrong please tell me as that would make things a lot easier.
Study the patch and see how it works, then build something from scratch that resembles it. Ain't no law 'gainst lernin' from uvvas 8)
Yup! I'd never suggest to outright use them, but study them. FM isn't as scary as a lot of people make it out to be, and I have a helluva fun time in Sytrus, Ox and Hexter now. :)

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DocAtlas
KVRian
984 posts since 11 Jan, 2006 from Pittsburgh

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:40 pm

george wrote:
SFtheWolf wrote:What does it do that FM8 can't? Were you suggesting it namely for the SysEx data import feature?
Yes, it can import classic Yamaha 4 operator SysEx.
I didn't think the FB-01's architecture had much in common with the other 4 operator synths, except for the number of operators and the eight algorithms. I don't think the envelopes are the same. The product page for Phantom says it can import patches from the DX27 / DX21 / DX100 / TX81 synthesizers; I would guess that other synths that have the same architecture (DX27s, V50, etc.) would also convert, but I'm not sure about the FB-01. It might be good to email DiscoDSP and ask.

This site might be helpful: http://nuxmicromedia.tripod.com/cgi-bin ... mode=sysex. I haven't had time to read through it yet.
I wish I could sing as well as the voices inside my head...

http://www.cdbaby.com/darkvictory

SFtheWolf
KVRer
10 posts since 1 Jan, 2013

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:40 pm

Good resources, thanks!

So I just found out that apparently a musician named GeckoYamori has been working on a patch bank for FM8 with exactly this purpose in mind. Here's a demo of it: https://soundcloud.com/lazygecko/fmdemo

I'll post a link here if I can find out where to get it.
"Operating the FM8 on Mac or Windows machines is identical, with some slight differences"

dusted william
KVRAF
4776 posts since 18 Dec, 2000

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:16 pm

SFtheWolf wrote:Good resources, thanks!

So I just found out that apparently a musician named GeckoYamori has been working on a patch bank for FM8 with exactly this purpose in mind. Here's a demo of it: https://soundcloud.com/lazygecko/fmdemo

I'll post a link here if I can find out where to get it.
man, those sound awesome!

I'd love to know where to buy those sounds.

dw

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toitoi
KVRist
325 posts since 16 Sep, 2005

Post Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:41 am


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discoDSP
KVRAF
4077 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from Spain, Europe

Post Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:32 am

Sega Mega Drive and Sega Genesis main sound chip was a Yamaha YM2612 with 6 FM channels, 4 operators each.

Phantom has 4 operators and is perfect for your goal...

Yudaidhun
KVRist
109 posts since 26 Mar, 2009

Post Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:55 am

This iYM2151 is the only one which is licensed by Yamaha.
http://www.detune.co.jp/iym2151.html

I really want the plugin version.
soundcloud.com/yudaidhun

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