Swingbeat; How do I do it?

[christian f.]

Bitch, you don't know what I do. You snidely remarked, as though it was an argument at IncarnateX I was his hero. That's far from being the case, I don't think he even wants to hear TELEVISED,but in this world there are people who found me heroic going back decades.

It's very easy to see what you do ... I can sense that you're very angry, frustrated and miserable about your failed career.
And since you like to be mathematical ... your "career" highlights were 50 years ago , your daily post count makes it look like it's your day job and the amount of views of all your youtube videos combined is lower than the views of this thread. Another highlight in your career

I don't need to post my credits on this forum to be found "heroic". I don't need to call you bitch either ... are you mentally still that 12 year old drummer ? Seems like you swapped your drum kit for a computer keyboard to "finger drum" all this bullshit on KVR

[jancivil]

The guy never asked for your scientific crap about making the beat swing.
We all can find the swing button / slider in our daw or drum machine.
We all know how to just extract the grooves/quantization from any groove we want.

LSD one helluva drug

Perfect illustration of the thought-free "Producer" mentality. You don't need any more than to stupidly, mindlessly rely on a machine for this. All of the consideration of what actually happens goes whoosh right over your little head.
You would never think that having experience with it your own self, standing on your own two feet with it would mean a more informed use of the technology. You aren't interested in the feel or groove at_all, are you?

Sure, the original poster is probably more like you than he is like me, a lot more. If this sub-forum had to be restricted to only addressing people on that severely narrow bandwidth, it would such a hugely poorer experience as far as the community or beyond. People read this that never type in the comment box. 2,832 so far. No one with a working musical intelligence is interested in your garbage. Some are probably 'let's you and him fight' gawking, but who knows.
People read me and take something away from it, because there is content. I'm actually talking about the reality of rhythm here.

So of course you want to redirect it to this extremely low common denominator, your comfort zone of abject ignorance.
You just totally prove my concept of you not being the go-to for anything. I can tell from a couple minutes googling, that the production team that brought Bobby Brown's new thing to him on a silver platter was songwriters, with a sound they'd cooked up. New styles don't happen from people with no interest or ability that believe shite such as 'This whole production style is all about layering samples'; nothing comes from you lot except garbage.
They did not create that sound sampling extant records! It simply doesn't follow, it doesn't scan.

You literally know nothing.

[jancivil]

You could use some acid, strip away some of those layers of thick shit from your malformed ego.

[christian f.]

You literally know nothing.

Like the wise Socrates once figured ..." True wisdom is in knowing you know nothing ".

You're a narcissist with clear ego problems and no real life/career outside of KVR.

[IncarnateX]

FWIW Jan got my full respect and there are shitloads of knowledge to extract if you know how. And to me, it is definitely not a disadvantage that one gives up a competitive career as musician and just go for the music itself. Did that myself. Once I wanted to be famous like all young dudes who went to the music school at which I am trained, but music became such a pressure, a demand to be better than others, to be unique, to train every day because it was that by which you should make a living. At some point, I hated it and could not listen to just one tune in my sparetime and really enjoy it. Music came too clustered with life to breathe on its own. So I went for another career and music became a hobby and thank God for that. Thus, I have no ego demands bound to music, no identity blah, no need to NOT take corrections if I fck up. Music theory was no longer a performance discipline to me but simply plain KNOWLEGDE. Yes, you can argue and get excited about it but that goes with engagement.

Further, if you ask what it all was good for now that I did not make a career of it, it is not just the knowledge, but what it can do to your attention and perception of music. Could have been a narrow electro kid myself, which I still am in my own primitive music, but I could not have had this broad taste within genres apart from my own. And further yet, even in my primitive music there are techniques, such as counterpoint/polyphony, which is not for everyone to do without training. Tell your ego and ignorance to go fck themselves and the world of music just opens itself to your mind to enjoy it in multiple forms. It is so much bigger than your own insignificant problems of life and will live on the day you are but dust.

[IncarnateX]

Jan, I did listen to Televiced but did not catch the illusion of swinging due to hats, but since I agree to the idea about how to induce such implications with sparse hats, I found no reason to dive into it. But of course you are right otherwise, I am much more into traditional music, and driven by modal or tonal melodies mainly, while you are at the frontiers of rhythm, harmony and improvisation breaking boundaries. Cannot catch up with that but I listen to what you are saying and take what I can use from it. Have no reason to do otherwise cf. above.

[christian f.]

I went for another career and music became a hobby and thank God for that. Thus, I have no ego demands bound to music, no identity blah, no need to NOT take corrections if I fck up. Music theory was no longer a performance discipline to me but simply plain KNOWLEGDE. Yes, you can argue and get excited about it but that goes with engagement.

Further, if you ask what it all was good for now that I did not make a career of it, it is not just the knowledge, but what it can do to your attention and perception of music. Could have been a narrow electro kid myself, which I still am in my own primitive music, but I could not have had this broad taste within genres apart from my own. And further yet, even in my primitive music there are techniques, such as counterpoint/polyphony, which is not for everyone to do without training. Tell your ego and ignorance to go fck themselves and the world of music just opens itself to your mind to enjoy it in multiple forms. It is so much bigger than your own insignificant problems of life and will live on the day you are but dust.

I admire and respect this 100% ! BUT nowadays one can be successful and independent without anyone telling you what to do. I'm convinced that If you're REALLY good and talented, people will 100% find you and recognise that no matter what genre, budget, age, market bla bla .. good will be found especially on Bandcamp and Youtube. For Jan , Instead of putting negative and competitive energy in (not only) this thread he probably could be of great value sharing his expertise and decades of experience in a positive way. It's all a matter of preference in the end.

[IncarnateX]

The technology is not the art, and the technology does not pre-determine the outcome. But when the outcome has features that bear a striking resemblance to those that the technology would enable/encourage, maybe we should at least acknowledge that there is some influence there?

That would be my point of departure too, but if analysis of peaks in grid says otherwise, one must also take the many techniques to get these machines going into consideration. It was not like it was impossible to make shuffles before MPC swing function, since they already did that with echo/delay machines on hats from Rhythm boxes, think Jarre for example. When loopers first arrived you could simply bang and loop your beats live and that took it further. So when swing function arrived it was not that groundbreaking at all but one should think that some would make particular use of it. For all I think I have heard, quantified BD and snares along with looser or simply sampled hat loops can easily make a beat going and that makes sense in theory too, so it would not have been a surprise to me if this had been the model for the Bobby Brown track, though it apparently is not according to Jan. At least I remember some tunes obviously made this way from the 90s and the wiki in New Jack Swing confirm the possibilities:

New jack swing did take up the trend of using sampled beats and tunes, and also created beats using the then-new SP-1200 sampler and the Roland TR-808 drum machine to lay an "insistent beat under light melody lines and clearly enunciated vocals."[1] The Roland TR-808 was sampled to create distinctive, syncopated, swung rhythms, with its snare sound being especially prominent.[4] Two examples would be "Groove Me" by Guy which samples "Funky President (People It's Bad)", "My Thang" and "The Champ" as well as its own swing drums and "Right or Wrong" by Mind which fuses sharp drum reverb effects and a hidden looped sample of the Funky Drummer. The key producers were Babyface & L.A. Reid, Bernard Belle, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, and Teddy Riley.[1]

Seems like a cluster of possible techniques, not one only, some live loops, other programmed and together they make it going in these organic yet very tight ways.

[vurt]

I went for another career and music became a hobby and thank God for that. Thus, I have no ego demands bound to music, no identity blah, no need to NOT take corrections if I fck up. Music theory was no longer a performance discipline to me but simply plain KNOWLEGDE. Yes, you can argue and get excited about it but that goes with engagement.

Further, if you ask what it all was good for now that I did not make a career of it, it is not just the knowledge, but what it can do to your attention and perception of music. Could have been a narrow electro kid myself, which I still am in my own primitive music, but I could not have had this broad taste within genres apart from my own. And further yet, even in my primitive music there are techniques, such as counterpoint/polyphony, which is not for everyone to do without training. Tell your ego and ignorance to go fck themselves and the world of music just opens itself to your mind to enjoy it in multiple forms. It is so much bigger than your own insignificant problems of life and will live on the day you are but dust.

I admire and respect this 100% ! BUT nowadays one can be successful and independent without anyone telling you what to do. I'm convinced that If you're REALLY good and talented, people will 100% find you and recognise that no matter what genre, budget, age, market bla bla .. good will be found especially on Bandcamp and Youtube. For Jan , Instead of putting negative and competitive energy in (not only) this thread he probably could be of great value sharing his expertise and decades of experience in a positive way. It's all a matter of preference in the end.

nobody is telling anybody what to do.
merely how it was done in a given example.

that knowledge, people can use or not use.
but it's always better to know more than less.

better to have a tool you dont need than need one you don't have.

[Aloysius]

ignorance is bliss

[vurt]

as is pissing yourself till it goes cold.

[vurt]

not as zen as my previous statement but no less true.

[Aloysius]

A proverb in the mouth of a fool is as useless as a paralyzed leg.

[IncarnateX]

Well, one thing this thread actually has told me is that I may want to have a Roland R8 myself

Just bought one at ebay. Well maintained it seems. Have made a deal with a guy to switch my Analog Keys with his Analog 4, so I have room for R8 as well.

This thread is wonderful. Even when it is wrong it is right: About time we to do something about those lazy quantified drum tracks and bring them closer to humanity all together.

Well, at least for me

[jancivil]

The technology is not the art, and the technology does not pre-determine the outcome. But when the outcome has features that bear a striking resemblance to those that the technology would enable/encourage, maybe we should at least acknowledge that there is some influence there?

Swing existed in music for how long? and now we're supposed to buy into an assertion that this one style, in an 'Urban' pop song style which shifts ever so slightly towards a triplet swing from straight up-down duple subdivision needs a drum machine setting as determinant? Cart pulls horse. Doesn't work for me.