The PyDAW thread!

[Kavokei]

Hi all!

Eh... Maybe I should create a separate PyDAW thread

Jeff - many a word spoken in jest and all that. Creating a PyDAW thread seems a good idea to me - I hope you're not offended that I just went ahead and did it.

I'll kick it off then... I've just installed PyDAW, and I love the look and feel of it. Just clicking around the interface, it seems to function intuitively. I love the direction you seem to be headed with it, Jeff.

One thing I'm struggling with, though, it getting it to make any noise (don't laugh). I'm fairly new to Linux, having done most of my audio work over the years in Windows via ASIO. The whole Jack/ALSA/PulseAudio situation makes my head ache. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything in the GUI that seemed to make PyDAW output sound, and messing around with QjackCtl and the PulseAudio mixer was equally fruitless. I also checked the manual/wiki, and googled the issue, but no joy there either. Could you point out the no-doubt-blindingly-obvious trick I'm missing please?

[jeffh]

Ha! Nice one, I guess we should migrate the conversation here and rid ourselves of those first 20 pages of cruft in the other thread

If it's not making any sound, then Jack is probably outputting to the wrong device...

In QJackCtl, click the "Setup button"... then click the [>] button next to "Interface [dropdown]" on the right side of the screen, and you should see a list of your system's devices... It should be fairly obvious which one to pick, but if it's not, just post the list here and I'll try to help you figure it out...

Then once you've selected your device from the dropdown, click "OK", then you can try pressing the "Start" button on the main QJackCtl window to test your settings...

Other considerations:

1. You may have to uncheck the "Realtime" box in settings
2. You may have to set the periods/buffer setting to 3
3. Firewire has some additional setup, let me know if you're running Firewire...

[Kavokei]

In QJackCtl, click the "Setup button"... then click the [>] button next to "Interface [dropdown]" on the right side of the screen, and you should see a list of your system's devices...

Ha! Worked like a charm. Thanks!

I spent the next twenty minutes playing with the synth plugins and fx, lots of fun. Got a fairly dirty sounding acid loop going in no time...

Ah, instant MIDI gratification on Linux - who would have thunk it?

Cheers Jeff


Incidentally, how did you come to be constructing a DAW using Python? Do you find it suits audio well? I ask because I'm just starting to get stuck in to using Python for data analysis and dashboarding with my team at work, and it's interesting to see it applied to one of my 'extra-curricular' activities. I've looked around for the PyDAW back story on the web, but I can only find what's on pydaw.org - it's just me being nosey, really

[jeffh]

Well... The GUI for PyDAW is written in Python (and really most of the data processing and other magic also happens there)... but no audio is processed there, that's done in the back-end that I wrote in C... Python wouldn't be fast enough to do any real audio work, but I knew that going in...

I'd love to say that I had more noble reasons for picking Python, but... the only reason I wrote PyDAW in Python was because at the time I started it, I was in the interview process at one of the most respected tech companies in the world (like the biggest of the big...), and not knowing any Python at the time was a huge factor in not getting that job...

But then, a month after I started writing PyDAW(my very first foray into Python), I somehow managed to get hired into another huge and very important tech company as a.... You guessed it! Python Developer

If that doesn't make the case that Python is powerful and easy to learn, I don't know what does... At work I mostly write web applications with it using either CGI or Tornado, but I think PyDAW proves that you can also write a full-on desktop application with it, I think nobody would suspect it was even written in Python if I didn't go around saying so...

...and I'm glad your having fun with PyDAW

[jeffh]

I just uploaded another release, I'm pretty sure that it should fix everybody's crashes/bugs, and some of the feature requests....

Also it now has much smoother automation, the "smooth" button now can set CC values to decimal values instead of integers, and increments them in time by 1/64 notes, instead of by incrementing an integer value and an adaptive time... If that didn't make sense, just suffice it to say that it works smoother now

^^^but that doesn't apply to song-level automation, just item level, there's additional considerations I need to make for that part...

[glokraw]

Creating a PyDAW thread seems a good idea to me - I hope you're not offended that I just went ahead and did it.

Should be good press for the project! Perhaps google will pick it up
faster, and more often. It's nice to follow along the developement track of
a rapid environment for audio production, engineering and recording.
Insider info, near realtime fixes, successful song creation,
all deserving of it's own thread.
Cheers

[glokraw]

oops, off topic, moved post to the 'is anybody using linux thread'
a liitle topic lysdexia set in, back to pure PyDaw

[Kavokei]

@Jeff - thanks for all the PyDAW back story; curiosity satisfied! I agree too, I'm constantly surprised by Python as to how easy it makes things, to the point where I feel like I'm going to get found out for cheating! And it always surprises me how quick it is to process data with Python. The more I use it the more I love it. Myself and another couple of members of my team at work are also starting a project to create a custom Supplier Management app, so looks like I'll be finding out first hand how powerful it is for that side of things too! Sorry, a bit OT, as you were people.

@glokraw - yep, that's what I was going for; PyDAW info in one place and easy to track the progress of the project. Hopefully it won't be long until PyDAW needs it's own subforum too.

Right, I'm off to download and play with the new update...

[xNiMiNx]

Been following the other thread, and see that the audio end got some lovin, (i guess you could say i fall into the "curt cobain wannabe class") I took a look at the screenshots but cant tell. One feature id like to see, would be the ability to have audio under the piano roll grid, to easily lay down midi. Anything like this in PyDAW currently, or would this be something you would find useful enough to add?

[jeffh]

(i guess you could say i fall into the "curt cobain wannabe class")

To quote Jerry Seinfeld:

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

I took a look at the screenshots but cant tell.

The interface changes so quickly that I only update the screenshots when something so drastically different that it's not even recognizable from the screenshots (so about once a month )

One feature id like to see, would be the ability to have audio under the piano roll grid, to easily lay down midi. Anything like this in PyDAW currently, or would this be something you would find useful enough to add?

Actually, I'm working out the details of something similar to what you're suggesting, but I don't quite have an ETA yet (but I'm thinking it won't be **that** difficult).

Basically, I was going to offer for both the piano roll and CC/pitchbend envelopes, a dropdown that contains a list of all audio items, then whenever one is selected from the dropdown, it will be overlayed semi-transparently onto the current editor...

But like I said, I don't have an ETA yet because first I need to make sure that's really feasible as I'm envisioning it...

[pc999]

I am updating PyDAW with stable releases as fast as I am updating Reaper pre releases these days

Nice to see, and it is better to have it on it is own thread I will see if I can test it soon (at this rate it may very well be the next release when I try it again... ).

[xNiMiNx]

...for both the piano roll and CC/pitchbend envelopes, a dropdown that contains a list of all audio items, then whenever one is selected from the dropdown, it will be overlayed semi-transparently onto the current editor...

Very nice to hear that its something youve thought about at least. And being able to do it in CC is a step forward, i dont believe any other daw does this yet, or at least ive never seen it. Hell, wav behind midi isnt even standard yet

I cant seem to find it, but i recall you saying that once you got things to a place you were comfortable with, you would slow down updates and try to work on music, to find anything you felt was a shortcoming. I think since im way out of the loop when it comes to linux, that then would be the best time for me to try it out, so i was wondering if you could make a post when you get to this point.

I brought up the quote about cobain because its the closest i fall near in your list (from the other thread). Btw, I never saw him go by Curt, it was always Kurt, Kurdt, or sometimes "the blonde one".

[jeffh]

I am updating PyDAW with stable releases as fast as I am updating Reaper pre releases these days

...and that's really what I'm going for

Reaper inspired a generation with it's lightning quick development pace and "we're not going to attempt to extract every last penny you have" attitude towards adding features... Then it un-inspired a generation by being loaded with so many half-baked ideas that apparently will never be finished, while the other DAWs pretty much caught up on the features that really mattered, I just don't see the same fanfare for Reaper that it had years ago, even on it's own forums...

But I think PyDAW is striking a tone with many people because it's showing that Linux DAWs can have that same lightning fast development pace (even though I work full-time and do this as a hobby, unlike Justin the multi-millionaire who owns a mountain and has employees )

Contrast that with the "slow as molasses"(as my southern belle ex-wife would say) development pace of the other Linux DAWs, I think I can really draw people to Linux as a platform with some careful planning and solid execution, even people who have never used Linux, or used it and weren't impressed with the available software... and I have the benefit of learning from the mis-steps of Reaper.

[jeffh]

Very nice to hear that its something youve thought about at least. And being able to do it in CC is a step forward, i dont believe any other daw does this yet, or at least ive never seen it. Hell, wav behind midi isnt even standard yet

I think I'm better positioned to do it than some DAWs... with my use of non-linear-ness and "views" instead of everything on one giant timeline, it's really not that difficult for me to do some of these things in the actual code itself...

I cant seem to find it, but i recall you saying that once you got things to a place you were comfortable with, you would slow down updates and try to work on music, to find anything you felt was a shortcoming. I think since im way out of the loop when it comes to linux, that then would be the best time for me to try it out, so i was wondering if you could make a post when you get to this point.

I'm actually doing that now... In fact, the last several releases have been centered around me fixing issues (especially in the workflow) that I discovered when writing a couple of mini-tunes, and then also issues that my users reported...

I'm strongly considering starting the development of PyDAWv3 soon(which will mean few if any v2 updates for a few months or so), but I'm thinking that there may still be more work to be done to PyDAWv2...

I brought up the quote about cobain because its the closest i fall near in your list (from the other thread). Btw, I never saw him go by Curt, it was always Kurt, Kurdt, or sometimes "the blonde one".

Yeah, I may have messed up the spelling, I didn't check it first... I was maybe like in the 4th grade when he off'd himself, but that was a golden era of rock for sure...

I would also like to draw your attention to section XXIV of the PyDAW EULA:

Section XXIV: Rockers

By even considering the use of this software, you hereby agree to bring back that 90s level of rock/metal awesomeness... like how some mind-blowing new rock/metal tune showed up on the radio every 2 weeks or so... You may supplement this with modern electronic influence if done tastefully...

[xNiMiNx]

I'm actually doing that now... considering starting the development of PyDAWv3 soon(which will mean few if any v2 updates for a few months or so)...

Alright then, sounds like its time to dl and burn the iso

that was a golden era of rock for sure...

Bleach at its time was awsome, having to order it in the mail from subpop wasnt It gave us poor kids hope, to find out it was done for about $600.

"PyDAW EULA"
Section XXIV: Rockers

By even considering the use of this software, you hereby agree to bring back that 90s level of rock/metal awesomeness...

Haha, this is nice. Good (at least where im coming from) to see its not completely geared for dance/trance/etc. I have a vast taste in music, but i like metal to sit on top or behind other genre's.