desperate for a vocoder with 0dff

[olikana]

i'm very unhappy with current software vocoders. both in software and hardware VA they just sound artificial and with that "plastick coating" of yesteryear dsp filters. infcact they all still use old dsp filter code...no real change since orange vocoder 10 years ago if only more oversampling (which is like a dog chasing its tail...faster...faster but still missing it)
considering vocoderes work with a bunch of filters and envelope followers i think 0dff would be vital for a great vocoder sound like the Bode (=moog vocoder).
and the Bode would be my favourite one for a straight out emulation but pretty much all analog vocoders i heard sound better than software equivalents.
any developer planning a vocoder with 0dff dsp any time soon?

[masterhiggins]

i'm very unhappy with current software vocoders. both in software and hardware VA they just sound artificial and with that "plastick coating" of yesteryear dsp filters. infcact they all still use old dsp filter code...no real change since orange vocoder 10 years ago if only more oversampling (which is like a dog chasing its tail...faster...faster but still missing it)
considering vocoderes work with a bunch of filters and envelope followers i think 0dff would be vital for a great vocoder sound like the Bode (=moog vocoder).
and the Bode would be my favourite one for a straight out emulation but pretty much all analog vocoders i heard sound better than software equivalents.
any developer planning a vocoder with 0dff dsp any time soon?

Every vocoder I've seen has some delay in the filtering algorithms. I think it probably has to due with low demand. Not sure. But if you haven't tried Lector then I suggest giving it a spin. Waldorf's digital filters sound significantly different than those of Orange's.

Until then, you could start petitioning U-he or Cytomic to start on it ASAP.

[olikana]

lector has nice features but the basic sound is unsatisfactory compared to analog and somehow nasty .
it's no better than attempt by korg in the microkorg(which btw is more musical and to be honest would outdo most attempts in software).
i understand that a bunch of filters and env followers in 0dff would bring a cpu to it's knees...but it's time some developers takes on the task.

[penguinfromdeep]

+1 for 0dfb filtered vocoder!!! We need that! Unfortunately vocoders are not that sexy at the moment (though i love them) ... I have hardware Roland Svc-350 and no software vocoder comes close to that even though it's not the best hardware vocoder around. Still sounds very nice of course
Software vocoders sound lame in comparison, I mean you can make some cool stuff with them but in no way they sound as smooth as a real hardware vocoder.

[olikana]

. I have hardware Roland Svc-350 .

i must admit of all the analog ones i tried and listened to it's probably the worst, with least charachter ....i prefer the more raw vintage sounding ones(even the korg vc-10 is better) ...but if even the worst analog vocoder sounds better than the best software vocders, that says it all really.
btw the scv-350 was used on famous tracks like bizarre love triangle by new order etc...so deserves some respect for sure just not the kind of vocder i'd love...but i agree still better than any software to date.

[Urs]

Bode (=moog vocoder)

Wasn't that the frequency shifter?

[olikana]

Bode (=moog vocoder)

Wasn't that the frequency shifter?

dunno what goes on behind the hood. but works like any other vocoder when u plugin a carrier.

silly demo...and probably not worth the superhigh price tag.
but with the sennheiser and ems is considered the best....and was used on some italo tunes i liked .
but i'm sure there are equally worthwhile analog vocoders out there for much less.
anwyay if u have any analog vocoder around to dissect and u can figure out why dsp/software solutions are so underwhelming would be nice..

[Urs]

Ah, ok... didn't know that unit. Thanks.

[valhallasound]

i'm very unhappy with current software vocoders. both in software and hardware VA they just sound artificial and with that "plastick coating" of yesteryear dsp filters. infcact they all still use old dsp filter code...no real change since orange vocoder 10 years ago if only more oversampling (which is like a dog chasing its tail...faster...faster but still missing it)
considering vocoderes work with a bunch of filters and envelope followers i think 0dff would be vital for a great vocoder sound like the Bode (=moog vocoder).
and the Bode would be my favourite one for a straight out emulation but pretty much all analog vocoders i heard sound better than software equivalents.
any developer planning a vocoder with 0dff dsp any time soon?

0dff = zero delay feedback filter, correct?

Can you explain, from a technical perspective, how using zero delay feedback filters in a vocoder filterbank would improve the sound, versus standard IIR filters and envelope followers?

My impression of the filters in the old vocoders were that they were pretty "boring" filters, and that precision and steepness were more important than character. The Sennheiser vocoders, for example, used some steeper Butterworth filters, which will give better results than a lower order filter with a higher Q - but will also use more cycles in the digital domain. However, I gotta admit that I don't know the ins and outs of vintage vocoders all that well. I'm also not up on how zero-delay feedback filters would affect envelope detectors, but since an envelope detector is essentially a nonlinear filter with different "cutoff" for different signals, zero delay might make a big difference in this application.

Sean Costello

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]