Midi SysX format - what is general and what is manufacturer?

[lfm]

Hi

Looking at sysx format for Korg - and found this special bit7 encoding for bytes in chunks for 8.

Is this native to Korg or part of how all manufacturers handle 8-bit data?

Thanks.

[obiwanjacobi]

All manufacturers of Midi devices use 'normal' 8 or 16 bit processors internally. They also use normal memory etc. So in the device everything is 8 bits (or multiples of that).

The Midi SysEx specs state that bit7 between the F0 and F7 markers must be cleared. (real-time messages are allowed to be mixed with this, but usually you dont encounter that - handled by the driver).

So that leaves 7 bits per midi sysex data 'byte' but there are 8 bits in the machine byte...?

Each manufacturer has come up with its own solution how to handle this. Some simply split the 8bit machine byte into two nibbles (4 bits) and send each nibble as a sysex byte. This method takes almost twice as much bytes.

So others have found a way to stuff 7 machine bytes (7x8 bits) into 8 syses bytes (8x7 bits).

My guess is, that is what you're looking at. There are some commonalities across vendors but don't count on it. Even the same vendor might choose one sysex impl for one model and a totally different one for the another model.

Some use a generic addressable message format other have dedicated sysex messages for each operation. Some devices only work on the current selected patch (PC to select which patch that is) others allow you access to the entire memory structure.

[lfm]

Perfect - thank you - that was what I needed to know, each manufacturer may do their own 8bit-treatment for their raw data in sysex.

In the specs for Korg CX-3 v2 I found description of this 7+1 byte chunks - but couldn't say if this was Korg only.

I just make a simple patch thingy - to write all leslie parameters from one program to all the others. To edit a dozen parameters on 128 programs is not all that fun once you know how you prefer it.

[AdmiralQuality]

Perfect - thank you - that was what I needed to know, each manufacturer may do their own 8bit-treatment for their raw data in sysex.

In the specs for Korg CX-3 v2 I found description of this 7+1 byte chunks - but couldn't say if this was Korg only.

I just make a simple patch thingy - to write all leslie parameters from one program to all the others. To edit a dozen parameters on 128 programs is not all that fun once you know how you prefer it.

This is what the "exclusive" part of System Exclusive means. It's entirely up to each manufacturer how they want to interpret the byte stream inside their sysex messages.

I have a CX-3, are you building an editor?

[lfm]

I have a CX-3, are you building an editor?

I don't think I will make a full editor, but thinking of making it possible to copy other parts than only leslie settings, like percussion and key clicks, amps settings etc.

Now it's just a simple commandline tool to translate a textfile to a binary, and then pick a part to copy to other patches in a AllPrograms sysex dump.

Right now I just used Reaper record of Sysex, then take properties on this midi event and copy all hex text to clipboard. Reaper remove F0 and F7, and I just add these to start and end.

Then this tool can handle it and generate a new such textfile with the operations you want, and to paste back into Reaper.

So it's a little bit hackerlevel to get basic programs right - and have more fun fixing drawbar variations.

If going further I will make a gui to pick and click a bit more userfriendly.

I'll make it available if anybody find it useable(just zip and post a link here). Compiled and sourcecode if somebody would like to elaborate more.(Just got conversions to/from binary ready yesterday, so I need to add a parameter to pick leslie/percussion/amp and from which program 0-127, and then it copies to the rest, maybe selective destination patches too could be useful.)

Here a link to spec I found:
http://clonewheel.ashbysolutions.com/bxcxmidi.pdf

So the binary is in compliance with the format. So to edit and fiddle with this would not be such a major job, but not my first aim.

[AdmiralQuality]

Interesting.

Keep in mind that the CX-3 has two firmware versions. 2.00 and 2.01 There's an updater you can download from Korg if you have the old version. I'd highly recommend the update, it fixes some bugs, adds a better reverb and amp model, as well as a "preamp" mode that is vital if you ever want to run through a real Leslie speaker, which I used to do with mine. And also offers a new tonewheel scaling that they say is more accurate to the real thing. So these changes definitely must affect the patch format as well.

You can tell which revision you have by powering up the CX-3 while holding down the 1 and the 8 buttons. You can also tell because the 2.01 version does a little drawbar animation when it's starting up that the original version doesn't do.

(That chart you posted must be for version 2.01 as it mentions the new reverb type, "dark" and the "pre amp" amp type.)

[lfm]

Thanks.

Yes, the 2.01 was on it when I bought it just 2-3 weeks ago.
I like it a lot.

While in sharing mode som more links:
http://clonewheel.ashbysolutions.com/cx-3fix.html

Try the B3 patch by Matthiola att the bottom - so nice:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthread ... /Korg_CX_3

Maybe I should start a thread, or continue my old at Hardware.

[AdmiralQuality]

Thanks.

Yes, the 2.01 was on it when I bought it just 2-3 weeks ago.
I like it a lot.

While in sharing mode som more links:
http://clonewheel.ashbysolutions.com/cx-3fix.html

Try the B3 patch by Matthiola att the bottom - so nice:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthread ... /Korg_CX_3

Maybe I should start a thread, or continue my old at Hardware.

I had one a few years ago but had to part with it because I needed rent and food money. Just replaced it a couple weeks ago. It's one of the first 3000 that had the bouncy keyboard, but I actually prefer those. I did the update on it to bring it up to v2.01.

I still need to go through and get programs set up the way I like but I've been too busy to get to it yet. Mostly I've just been using it as a controller for GSi's VB3. If you haven't tried this plug-in, get it! Demo is free.

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24

Sounds amazing and it's the same thing they're using for the voice engine in the new Crumar Mojo "clonewheel" organ.



http://www.crumar.it/?a=showproduct&b=4

The Mojo looks pretty awesome but they didn't lay out the controls quite right. That's why the CX-3/BX-3 are so nice, everything's where it belongs. The only other "clonewheels" that do it right are the Hammond XK3c and the Roland VK-88 (the single manual VK-8 is totally wrong, however).

But yes, a Hardware thread about the CX-3 would be good. We've also been discussing VB3 over here... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=353005

[lfm]

Thanks - I now made an attempt to start a thread in Hardware.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5307789

Ran my own software business for 16 years - and can say - been there, done that. Had to sell of in between having lows in business starting with asia crisis 1998.

I used NI B4 and B4 II, but since they are discontinued as well as 32bit one never know for how long they will work.

Heard about VB3, it's supposed to be good. Is it x64?

One thing about cx-3 is that it's a one button press and then play. No computers or software needs to be started.

[AdmiralQuality]

Thanks - I now made an attempt to start a thread in Hardware.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5307789

Ran my own software business for 16 years - and can say - been there, done that. Had to sell of in between having lows in business starting with asia crisis 1998.

I used NI B4 and B4 II, but since they are discontinued as well as 32bit one never know for how long they will work.

Heard about VB3, it's supposed to be good. Is it x64?

One thing about cx-3 is that it's a one button press and then play. No computers or software needs to be started.

Yeah it can be rough. The recent (current?) recession really hit me hard. I was down to one last MIDI controller for a while, just enough to continue testing my products with. Picking up a bit now I think, at least in the contract programming side.

VB3 is absolutely excellent, best Hammond emulation I've heard yet. The Leslie could be a bit better, but it's serviceable. But as far as the actual organ tone, nothing else touches it.

No, it's not x64 yet. But just run a 32 bit host when you want to use it. Really the only advantage to 64 bit hosts is when you need gobs of sample RAM. (And with most samplers using direct from disk technology, who even needs that?)