Hello,
My last thread was over in the hardware forum, I got lots of great info on the Kurzweil pc3 series and in fact ended up getting one. Best keyboard purchase I've ever made.
Now I'm moving (a bit) into the modern age and wondering if I can use my ipad (retina version with 16GB) as a sound source for live sound. Or rather, I know it can be done and I'm just exploring all options.
I currently bring two keyboards to gigs--the Kurzweil and a weighted controller, which connects via midi to play the Kurzweil sounds. This works great, except for two things: I have to program the Kurzweil in Setup mode, which is not as free-and-easy as I'd prefer and 2) if the Kurzweil takes a dive I'm SOL.
I also have an older Access Virus--which I love--but the darn thing can't really help out as I play 95% piano, organ and electric piano in this band.
So I'm considering having the controller midi'ed to the ipad via the CCK, which I bought. I also had to buy a class-compliant midi-to-usb adapter since my controller does not have usb. Finally, for audio I'll have to use a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter cable to go to my submixer. This all is a bit fiddly and sounds less-than-rugged. (For the record I do all my home recording and playing using softsynths on a mac laptop, but I don't want to use that live for various reasons). I tend to trust and use hardware live. The ipad seems much more manageable than a laptop as I can simply velcro it flat to my controller, no way it can fall.
Other options--the new Alesis mix IO seems *almost* great, except it has no midi! Ideally I would love something that can do all this:
--take midi from the controller
--output audio from the ipad, not digital but analog ready to send to the PA
--accept the output from my hardware board(s)
The 3rd one is extra as I do have a submixer; but if I can avoid it and keep things simpler I will!
Hardware aside, I would welcome recommendations for apps. I primarily need piano. I know of Garage Band and will pick it up very soon in any event but I'm skeptical it's piano will cut it. There's iGrand, and SampleTank, and ???
This is classic rock in a band with two guitarists, I'm not playing Chopin (and can't LOL) by myself in a posh restaurant, so it just has to be a decent rock piano that can cut through. MOST OF ALL it can't glitch and there can't be latency...the first glitch with this system will probably mean I won't use it live...I had a couple issues in practice with my laptop out of nowhere and that's what moved me back to hardware!
Thanks for any suggestions, looking forward to trying this thing out!
It should be said that I'll have my ipad with me no matter what, as the PA mixer we use is digital and has an app that allows any of us to set and control our own monitor mix---yay!!! It's very cool.
Ipad in classic rock band options
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- KVRist
- 478 posts since 25 Jun, 2010
---For what it's worth or to appear cooler..FWIW! LOL Here's what I use in my classic rock/progressive 3 piece band and it seems to work very well.
Korg M-50, Roland Juno D SE, Korg TR-Rack, Roland XV-5050, EMU Vintage Keys + and my iPad 2 w.32 gigs. We don't have a guitar player so I have to do a lot of stuff besides singing but here's where I'm heading and why.
The M-50 I use as a master with the other hardware synths going into a midi thru box and the iPad is used for lead things but this is too complicated for me and the gigs don't pay enough to haul all of this stuff around so...
I bought another iPad and will leave most of this stuff at home or sell it!
Now that Waldorf has released Nave it's all the synth I need and Galileo is a killer organ app so that's for one iPad and the other? Garageband and Sampletank, the Sampletank sax to me is great and doing songs like Baker St. you really need a great sax! About interfaces and using live..
I bought the Griffin dock thing so it would keep my iPad charged, it provides midi and it has stereo outs, all apps seem to do just fine with it. I was using a Line 6 Midiizzer (?) 2 and will use that with the new iPad charging it on breaks. With Sampletank you can layer up to 4 instruments and for my taste they are okay but I'm not a fan of the acoustic pianos in it or GB. The IK Multimedia pianos are just okay in my books but the electric pianos are killer but...as of now you can't save your own presets so adjustments you make with effects to get that killer Supertramp sound are lost when you change sounds. Bummer!!
I can tons of apps and took all of them off of my ipad except for Nave, Galileo, GB and ST...for me that's all I need.
Korg M-50, Roland Juno D SE, Korg TR-Rack, Roland XV-5050, EMU Vintage Keys + and my iPad 2 w.32 gigs. We don't have a guitar player so I have to do a lot of stuff besides singing but here's where I'm heading and why.
The M-50 I use as a master with the other hardware synths going into a midi thru box and the iPad is used for lead things but this is too complicated for me and the gigs don't pay enough to haul all of this stuff around so...
I bought another iPad and will leave most of this stuff at home or sell it!
Now that Waldorf has released Nave it's all the synth I need and Galileo is a killer organ app so that's for one iPad and the other? Garageband and Sampletank, the Sampletank sax to me is great and doing songs like Baker St. you really need a great sax! About interfaces and using live..
I bought the Griffin dock thing so it would keep my iPad charged, it provides midi and it has stereo outs, all apps seem to do just fine with it. I was using a Line 6 Midiizzer (?) 2 and will use that with the new iPad charging it on breaks. With Sampletank you can layer up to 4 instruments and for my taste they are okay but I'm not a fan of the acoustic pianos in it or GB. The IK Multimedia pianos are just okay in my books but the electric pianos are killer but...as of now you can't save your own presets so adjustments you make with effects to get that killer Supertramp sound are lost when you change sounds. Bummer!!
I can tons of apps and took all of them off of my ipad except for Nave, Galileo, GB and ST...for me that's all I need.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 343 posts since 11 May, 2010
Thanks for the reply, glad to see at least one other person is doing this 
Griffin dock eh, I didn't even know about this...I'll check it out.
I'm big on simple...while part of me loves the "wall 'o boards" castle approach where you are surrounded in a comfort zone of boards....that part leaves at 1AM while the other parts have to pack up and drive home.
The unfortunate part is that I get the feeling that the iPad strength is synth, and that's the one thing I don't need between the Kurz and the Virus. But I'll likely get something on there for some songs if I use it. I love Alchemy on my mac, though I don't really need that type of sound currently in the band very much.
Which piano do you recommend then, keeping in mind it's blues/honkytonk stuff. I can't think of any tunes we do now where I'd even play legato, it's all banging stuff like Call Me the Breeze, Roadhouse Blues etc. So subtlety isn't needed but clarity and lack of latency are important.
I didn't even consider the charging of the ipad, yikes. Also, does having the 16GB version raise any concern for these apps (thinking sampletank here).
Griffin dock eh, I didn't even know about this...I'll check it out.
I'm big on simple...while part of me loves the "wall 'o boards" castle approach where you are surrounded in a comfort zone of boards....that part leaves at 1AM while the other parts have to pack up and drive home.
The unfortunate part is that I get the feeling that the iPad strength is synth, and that's the one thing I don't need between the Kurz and the Virus. But I'll likely get something on there for some songs if I use it. I love Alchemy on my mac, though I don't really need that type of sound currently in the band very much.
Which piano do you recommend then, keeping in mind it's blues/honkytonk stuff. I can't think of any tunes we do now where I'd even play legato, it's all banging stuff like Call Me the Breeze, Roadhouse Blues etc. So subtlety isn't needed but clarity and lack of latency are important.
I didn't even consider the charging of the ipad, yikes. Also, does having the 16GB version raise any concern for these apps (thinking sampletank here).
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- KVRist
- 478 posts since 25 Jun, 2010
--I've had a lot of apps on my 32 gig and it wasn't half full, the memory just seems to go on and on...
As for the iPad's abilities, there really are some great synths for it (I think the Nave is my favorite but everyone hears things their own way) but there are some great acoustic type sounds also (that sax I alluded to was convincing enough to fool a very accomplished sax player who heard us) and you can download (I think you still can) a demo of the IK piano to check it out. With Billy Payne type playing to me a sharper edge is needed but once again everyone hears things differently. I like the piano on my M-50 and I have friends who think it reeks...Could be my playing!!!
It works well with Styx and REO so it's good enough for me...LOL
As for the iPad's abilities, there really are some great synths for it (I think the Nave is my favorite but everyone hears things their own way) but there are some great acoustic type sounds also (that sax I alluded to was convincing enough to fool a very accomplished sax player who heard us) and you can download (I think you still can) a demo of the IK piano to check it out. With Billy Payne type playing to me a sharper edge is needed but once again everyone hears things differently. I like the piano on my M-50 and I have friends who think it reeks...Could be my playing!!!
It works well with Styx and REO so it's good enough for me...LOL
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 343 posts since 11 May, 2010
So with the Griffin, now that I've checked it out....
The audio outs are rca so you use an adapter I assume. Do you use a submixer for the Griffin outs plus hardware? Are the levels similar?
I'd be curious also whether the Griffen output would sound better than the iPad's headphone outs, which is what I'd have to use with the CCK. I've heard that the headphone out may not be that great, then again I can try it myself very soon!
Hey we play Renegade (no piano obviously) and Roll With the Changes so if that piano works for Roll I'm sure it would be fine for Skynyrd
The audio outs are rca so you use an adapter I assume. Do you use a submixer for the Griffin outs plus hardware? Are the levels similar?
I'd be curious also whether the Griffen output would sound better than the iPad's headphone outs, which is what I'd have to use with the CCK. I've heard that the headphone out may not be that great, then again I can try it myself very soon!
Hey we play Renegade (no piano obviously) and Roll With the Changes so if that piano works for Roll I'm sure it would be fine for Skynyrd
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 343 posts since 11 May, 2010
From the other iPad computer thread...this thing looks awesome:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet.php
Have to wonder at $$ though. As a plus I could use a good preamp for home recording, I use my zoom h2 right now....
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet.php
Have to wonder at $$ though. As a plus I could use a good preamp for home recording, I use my zoom h2 right now....
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- KVRist
- 478 posts since 25 Jun, 2010
---I do use adapters to connect to the rca's and I wish they'd put regular 1/4" plugs there but...I don't know if they sound any better but being stereo I guess you'd have the advantage of panning them.
My old band used to do Renegade and the radio hits by Styx, Journey, a few Kansas, etc..but in this new band with no guitarist it's a full time job for me to keep up with the easy stuff we're doing...LOL
My old band used to do Renegade and the radio hits by Styx, Journey, a few Kansas, etc..but in this new band with no guitarist it's a full time job for me to keep up with the easy stuff we're doing...LOL
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- KVRist
- 246 posts since 18 Jul, 2003 from NJ
I have the alesis io4 and it will be perfect for what you need. I think I paid $70 on amazon? 4 inputs at 16 bit, 2 at 24 bit, 4 outputs on 1/4", midi I/O. It can also act as a standalone mixer.
As far as apps go, igrand and ilectric are both cool, sampletank is cool and may cover all you need. Galileo s an awesome organ. Right there you'd cover all the bases you specified.
I used my io4 and ipad tonight for a wedding showcase, playing Jamup pro as a front end for the bass amp on the studio, it has worked well for me every time I've done that. I did use it on a whole gig last month too when I couldn't fit my pedalboard. I use the ipad regularly though for synth bass (irig keys controlling it, using imini for synth bass, sometimes some other apps) and also for reading charts when I need to.
As far as apps go, igrand and ilectric are both cool, sampletank is cool and may cover all you need. Galileo s an awesome organ. Right there you'd cover all the bases you specified.
I used my io4 and ipad tonight for a wedding showcase, playing Jamup pro as a front end for the bass amp on the studio, it has worked well for me every time I've done that. I did use it on a whole gig last month too when I couldn't fit my pedalboard. I use the ipad regularly though for synth bass (irig keys controlling it, using imini for synth bass, sometimes some other apps) and also for reading charts when I need to.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 343 posts since 11 May, 2010
This post is going to show my ignorance with ipads and ios I suspect...
I don't see an ipad connector--I'd need the lightning one--on that IO4. Does that mean it connects to the ipad via usb using the CCK?
If so, that might open the field a bit...I've been looking specifically for interfaces with an ipad connector right in/on them.
I don't see an ipad connector--I'd need the lightning one--on that IO4. Does that mean it connects to the ipad via usb using the CCK?
If so, that might open the field a bit...I've been looking specifically for interfaces with an ipad connector right in/on them.
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- KVRist
- 246 posts since 18 Jul, 2003 from NJ
Yes, cck. The io4 needs to be plugged into ac as well, but in your setup that wouldn't pose an issue. Io4 is recognized without issue from the iPad and the midi works really well. I got it because the digital piano I acquired wouldn't work correctly with the generic USB midi cable I had. Now I've used it for more than I ever thought I would.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 343 posts since 11 May, 2010
Well my education continues!
The Alesis looks good.
So does this Akai:
http://www.akaipro.com/eie
And possibly this Roland:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DuoCaptureEX
Both these were recommended on some other forums along with some other "traditional" usb audio interfaces. Besides needing to be class compliant, the midi port requirement is the one that weeds many of them out.
The Griffin is the only one that charges the iPad. So, I'm curious: running one app--whatever that will be, likely SampleTank--for a typical gig, which would be 4 sets of 45min each...would the iPad charge hold up? I could charge between sets if I remembered to do so LOL!
This weekend I'll give the low-rent approach a try at practice...CCK for midi and headphone out for audio. If I get enough juice from the headphone out and it sounds ok who knows....
The Alesis looks good.
So does this Akai:
http://www.akaipro.com/eie
And possibly this Roland:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DuoCaptureEX
Both these were recommended on some other forums along with some other "traditional" usb audio interfaces. Besides needing to be class compliant, the midi port requirement is the one that weeds many of them out.
The Griffin is the only one that charges the iPad. So, I'm curious: running one app--whatever that will be, likely SampleTank--for a typical gig, which would be 4 sets of 45min each...would the iPad charge hold up? I could charge between sets if I remembered to do so LOL!
This weekend I'll give the low-rent approach a try at practice...CCK for midi and headphone out for audio. If I get enough juice from the headphone out and it sounds ok who knows....
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- KVRist
- 246 posts since 18 Jul, 2003 from NJ
I use my iPad on 4 hour gigs all the time, battery lasts with no problem. It's also easy enough to give it a quick charge between sets.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 343 posts since 11 May, 2010
^ Yes, it feels to me also like putting a square peg in a round hole!
However, the fact that I have 1) a new iPad bought for non-music purposes and 2) a weighted controller sitting around force me to examine the possibilities
Ironically though I use software synths at home--it's so incredibly convenient and sounds great to me--I like hardware for live. But bringing a laptop to classic rock bar gigs crosses some kind of line...I just can't go there. However, an iPad velcroed to my controller, as long as the connections aren't too many and too fiddly (and it's looking a bit that way), I could live with.
Plus the iPad can be used to mix my own monitor feed since we are using a line6 soundscape....free from the tyranny of on onstage sound man! (our bass player)
However, the fact that I have 1) a new iPad bought for non-music purposes and 2) a weighted controller sitting around force me to examine the possibilities
Ironically though I use software synths at home--it's so incredibly convenient and sounds great to me--I like hardware for live. But bringing a laptop to classic rock bar gigs crosses some kind of line...I just can't go there. However, an iPad velcroed to my controller, as long as the connections aren't too many and too fiddly (and it's looking a bit that way), I could live with.
Plus the iPad can be used to mix my own monitor feed since we are using a line6 soundscape....free from the tyranny of on onstage sound man! (our bass player)
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- KVRian
- 812 posts since 27 Oct, 2011 from Pacific Northwest
I come from a hardware background. I don't play classic rock, but I do use piano and organ. I personally really like IK's iGrand Piano app and find it to have the best piano sounds on the iPad. I know many people like the GB pianos, but they sound a bit dull to me. Also, GB is very limited in polyphony so you get dropped notes. On the latest iPads, I think you get 64-note poly in iGrand. iGrand is very limited in sound manipulation, though. You get just a few adjustments. SampleTank just didn't meet my needs and I found it unreliable for live (would crash after switching programs a few times).
With the recent release of Galileo, we now have an excellent organ app. Nice variety and lots of editing depth. The amount of editing options is outrageous. Some of the options aren't just On/Off, but a full sweep of values to get things just right.
IK has iLectric with a large complement of electric pianos. I hope to incorporate these into my live rig and move away from hardware. Gospel Musicians has their Soul Keys app which is also a good choice. Soul Keys is kind of like the Galileo of Electric Piano apps. Lots of editing and those little tweaks that give the classics that special sound.
A fully charged iPad should be totally fine with four, 45 minute sets.
With the recent release of Galileo, we now have an excellent organ app. Nice variety and lots of editing depth. The amount of editing options is outrageous. Some of the options aren't just On/Off, but a full sweep of values to get things just right.
IK has iLectric with a large complement of electric pianos. I hope to incorporate these into my live rig and move away from hardware. Gospel Musicians has their Soul Keys app which is also a good choice. Soul Keys is kind of like the Galileo of Electric Piano apps. Lots of editing and those little tweaks that give the classics that special sound.
A fully charged iPad should be totally fine with four, 45 minute sets.