Phoenix and the others./ Search for the most Natural reverb

[Tapehead]

As the title suggests, I have a question about the most natural reverb in VST format.

I own the hardware version of lexicon91 and after many years of using it my ears are really tired from its sound.

My challenge with all non I.R. reverbs is that I hear them too much. They sound like an effect rather than a space where the music is played.

I'm about to demo Phoenix reverb but before that(since the demo time is limited) , I just wanted to get as much opinions as possible from the users who already own Phoenix and have good knowledge of existing reverbs. So, my question to you is : Does it work well with acoustic music? Does it sound like an effect or does it sound like a space?

My main focus is acoustic music and all plugins that I tried (B2, Valhalla, even Lexicon etc., etc.) are way too "effected" and have some strange unnatural sonic clogging that is very difficult to blend into my mixes.

The M7 and to some extend TC6000 have some very interesting algos that are far more natural then what I've heard so far with existing plugins but the cost of them (even the rental cost) is too high. Hence, I've been looking for every possible review/opinion of Phoenix . My understanding is that this reverb is not based upon heavily modulated algo. Am I right about it?

Any other suggestions?

[Arrested Developer]

I habe to say that i was really doing lots of research for finding the tools that fit my needs.
and while i use and love my different babies (convolution verbs, Lexicon LXP bundle, valhalla VVV etc.), if it comes down to a really clear and natural verb, it's mostly always Phoenix...
The interesting thing is, with this reverb i often find my self increasing the amount of wet signal after pauses of listening.
It's really extremely transparent and gives great results.
Sometimes i combine it with the ER-section of true verb, since i love how they solved the distance parameter and the ERs are really great.

[valhallasound]

I haven't heard a plugin reverb that is more transparent than Phoenix. It is clearly (to my ears) descended from the Lexicon lineage, but it has none of the "thickness" of the old hardware. Instead, it has a clear sound, without being bland. As a reverb developer, I'm REALLY impressed with Phoenix. It seems like the perfect candidate for your stated goals.

Sean Costello

[ras.s]

A plugin that I often use to give instruments a space is Tila2 by signal dust. I find it very good for short reverberations, sort of giving 'body' to sounds. If you're on Windows, give it a try, it's free. Perhaps not what you're looking for though, it won't put your orchestra inside a cathedral or anything ..

If you record acoustic instruments, try recording the room while you're at it..

[Tapehead]

Thank you Sean! Do you plan to have a take on algos that can compliment (or compete) with the Phoenix reverb? The funny thing is that when I used to work with Pyramix, I had an access to Aphro reverb by VB audio and even though it was very artificial sounding when soloed, I was always able to fit it into my mixes without sonic clogging that I get with the majority of current reverbs, especially when they're used with acoustic instruments.

Sometimes i combine it with the ER-section of true verb, since i love how they solved the Sometimes i combine it with the ER-section of true verb, since i love how they solved the distance parameter and the ERs are really great

.


Great tip! I always wanted to have a separate fx unit juts for ER

[Tapehead]

A plugin that I often use to give instruments a space is Tila2 by signal dust. I find it very good for short reverberations, sort of giving 'body' to sounds. If you're on Windows, give it a try, it's free. Perhaps not what you're looking for though, it won't put your orchestra inside a cathedral or anything ..

If you record acoustic instruments, try recording the room while you're at it..

I use Tila a lot but mostly as an FX reverb. It is a very nice tool but not in a category of transparency.

Thank you

[valhallasound]

Thank you Sean! Do you plan to have a take on algos that can compliment (or compete) with the Phoenix reverb?

I feel that my reverbs compliment Phoenix just fine. My stuff isn't really "transparent," and it seems like there is a market for "thicker" reverbs. My tastes run to the Lexicon era from 1979 through 1984, as well as modern algorithmic explorations that don't fit into that categorization. Michael has done an amazing job with Phoenix and R2, and I think that my current plugins can happily coexist with his stuff without too much overlap. Reverbs aren't like Highlander - there can be more than one!

Sean Costello

[xamido]

I agree that phoenix is the most transparent. Yesterday i decided to download the demo for phoenix and compare it side by side with Vroom and VVV.

I find myself increasing the wet amount on phoenix to get that usual big reverb effect sound that i like. Even when i put it very high it still doesn't sound forced.

But..... that's why i won't get it. I like reverb that are big and noticeable. Valhalla stuff is great for the kind of music i make, though i can clearly understand why for accoustic phoenix might be better.

[zvenx]

I too love transparent Reverbs, where I feel it more than hear it.
I have demo'ed most (not all) and the two most transparent ones to me was the aforementioned Phoenix and surprisingly for me, Relab's LX480 (yeah I know it shouldn't be, but for my ears it was).
I ended up buying Phoenix (as well as R2 for when i want to hear the Reverb), and have had zero regrets. Phoenix is used in all my projects and it does add a sense of space without hearing it, but if you mute it, you feel its absence immediately.
Highly recommend Phoenix.
rsp

[Bronto Scorpio]

I quite like VRoom for "physical spaces" to be honest, especially for small ambiences.
I like how I can throw it on completely artificial sounding stuff like glitches and they suddenly start to sound like physical objects.

I was working on a (really bad) piano emulation in Zebra some days ago, it suddenly started to sound much more realistic when I put VRoom on it.

I never tried the Pheonix reverb though (I don't have an iLok).

Cheers
Dennis

[Tapehead]

Another question:

Which reverb has the most advanced ER section? I also would like to know how to manipulate distance through adjusting ER. I always thought that pre-delay has a bigger effect on distancing but I rarely think when I move reverb sliders/parameters ...

Thank you

[sqigls]

EAreckon EAReverb is tops.
Natural verb.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Another question:

Which reverb has the most advanced ER section? I also would like to know how to manipulate distance through adjusting ER. I always thought that pre-delay has a bigger effect on distancing but I rarely think when I move reverb sliders/parameters ...

Thank you

To me, the ER section of a verb is the best way to create things like natural, short ambiences. To do this, turn the Late Reflections down, and the Early Reflections up. This makes the instrument sound close, while adding ambience. Doing the opposite makes things sound further away from the source. I actually like more ER's than LR's for a lot of tasks, as they can make things sound like they're distance mic'd in a room versus that big cheesey reverb hall sound.

ValhallaVintageVerb is not transparent at all, but allows for great Early/Late controls. So does the Princeton Digital 2016 Stereo Room. Even IK's old CSR does a decent job at this. All are very basic designs, but get the job done at that particular task. I'm sure something like Phoenix probably offers a ton of controls and sounds great, but I just haven't been able to afford it, so I haven't bothered to demo it (better not to be tempted and just be happy with what I already have).

[dalor]

Black Friday is coming up in 10 days. *Maybe* some devs have some sales on for certain plugins *cough, COUGH*..

[toothnclaw]

I'd say don't use a second reverb just for ER, that would be an insult to Phoenix. Rather, just use something like Proximity by VladG.