Steinberg announces Wavelab 8.5 at Musikmesse 2014 - probably paid update

[Compyfox]

The full coverage:

WaveLab 8.5 - exclusive preview (post by Timo Wildenhain at Steinberg Boards)
WaveLab 8.5 - Q&A (at Steinberg Boards)

Official Wavelab 8.5 homepage


The software is supposed to hit in June 2014.

Since there is talk of a "Grace Period" for 8.5, I assume that it will be yet another paid update. According to the Steinberg boards, the programmer Phillipe Goutier (PG at Steinberg boards) has commented that it might be 50 EUR again, and users already assume that WL9 will be released in 2015.



The biggest feature that is standing out to me, is the implementation of rendering in AAC (HD-AAC especially). Another new feature will be a "multi-format rendering" feature, which does come in handy if you have to provide several final formats.

But seeing that Wavelab is now also(!) going down the Cubase route, clearly saddens me. Unfortunately, for CD mastering... Wavelab is still the leading light. Now I also fear a price raise (as it happened with Cubase), and a paid update very 9 to 11 months, with very slow maintenance updates in between.

Just... why?
As if Steinberg intentionally wants to flush out smaller/not so well known musicians and/or engineers, and rather insist on their "professional tools for professionals". I really don't get it anymore how such an old and once customer friendly company can scare off their longtime userbase with such a performance, not to mention the steps they took recently against(!) their longtime customers.


The "big 3" (AVID, Steinberg, Apple) have serious problems currently - that is more than apparent.

[cryophonik]

...and it still looks like Windows 98. Oh well, Wavelab 8 does plenty enough for me. Hell, I could probably get by with the Elements version.

[Compyfox]

The thing that gives me constant disharmoy with Steinberg, are the following facts:

- maintenance updates are slow, certain bugs not fixed or pushed towards the next paid version (ASIO engine comes to mind, the "lazy MIDI note" issues, etc)
- FR and critism to new features are not ported/fixed (Cubase, the MixConsole critism!)
- interim paid updates give the constant impression, that "something is missing" and/or "you have missed out so far". There is not even a try(!) to go for x.1 or x.2 anymore in favor for a quick buck and shortening the release cycle
- the shorter upgrade cycles are not possible to be covered anymore (yes, even as Freelancer with a job of like 200bucks per deal, you have to pay bills and insurance first before you can update anything!), and the raised fees are not helping either
- most of the time, the "interim versions" are basically paid-to-use betas for the next major version. So why not call it like that right from the start?


Steinberg sadly inherited the AVID ProTools paid update scheme. But they unfortunately perfectioned it better than MAGIX and Cakewalk with their once "one major host version per year" game.

250-300 EUR (Cubase .0 to .0) and/or 150 EUR (WL7 to WL8.5 after the grace period) per upgrade every two years is a lot of wood for freelancers and studios that don't make several hundres of Euro profit a months. Not counting upgrade fees for third party VST. And I do have a feeling, the pricing for WL also changed. Wasn't the MSRP 499EUR? Now it's 549EUR.



I'm actually lost for words.

[dsan@mail.com]

I think this is the wave of the future we will all end up riding - paid updates.

These companies have realized we, as users, are willing to give them more money.

So until we, as users, stop buying into the paid update scheme, (which isn't going to happen as we all know), it's going to get worse, IMO.

I think we will eventually see even bug fixes will be "paid update" (which, again IMO, we are already seeing.)

JM2C

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[Compyfox]

Well... Apple on the other hand, also asked for OS updates on top of their already very expensive hardware. Now they are going back to free OS updates.

Why this doesn't work for host creators, or only works for some (see Image Line), is beyond me.



EDIT:
I just got an answer to my Q's at the Steinberg boards.

I think this time around, I will cave and get the update... because... the AAC Add Ons and "CODEC check system" are actually a definite implementation of the Fraunhofer ProCodec(!!!), for a fraction of the costs! My question if I can render HD-AAC was positively answered - and this is a main point for me for a purchase.

WL8 alone, with the EBU R-128 modes (see NugenAudio and Grimm Audio, about 500EUR extra for tools each!, even if the customisation is still sh*t) and now the implementation of the Fraunhofer ProCodec (about 360EUR/295GBP plus VAT!) is totally worth it to me. I even filed this FR months ago - now it will be implemented.

And if the programmer fixes the VST3 Audio Forward Bug within this cycle (WL8.x), then this might be the last update for quite a while. Until something is really broken and beyond repair.


Automation will sadly only be available with WL9. But I never saw WL as a multitrack device - which could change my opinion if this system is expanded on in WL9 (demoing first this time around!). And there is still hope that the upgrade fees remain low (more affordable than Cubase at least - 100EUR is different than almost 300EUR).



Looks like at least one programmer is still listening to the customers. Then again, WL was always a "one man" show.

[Timfonie]

I stopped updating Cubase since v5.5 because of the increased update prices and non-free interim updates. I feel I really don't miss much by not updating.
Maybe Cubase v9.0 will have enough benefits to persuade me to catch up by updating to the very latest version again, or by buying the Artist version or perhaps even quite another DAW, instead of updating again and again which adds up considerably.
I'm saving the money on a number of updates and I will decide one day which further road to travel. It feels good to have this freedom.

The newest update schedule now for Wavelab may annoy and alienate a lot of customers. However as long as there are enough of them left who follow the update path, Steinberg's doing fine financially. Since their main goal is to earn money, customers satisfaction only seems important in the light of profit optimalisation.

[Compyfox]

Again:

Difference of 100 EUR from WL7 to WL8 + 50 EUR for WL8.5 (with a chance to still pay only 50EUR from WL8.5 to WL9) or 250EUR from C6.0 to C7.5 (currently, individually you pay much more) and stil pay abot 150EUR to 200EUR from C7.5 to C8.


The price value just doesn't add up anymore. It does for WL, considering what you get. It does not anymore for Cubase. And damn, I fear the day that C8 comes along and finally fixes the ASIO issues.


So I rather support WL's development - since the price/deal balance is way better - than Cubase (where I feel like a permanent pay-to-use beta tester). But then again... I pay even more if I sit out a version.

[dsan@mail.com]

I stopped at C6 for the same reason....I didn't find much compelling reason with each .5 to justify the cost.

However, I will say that each increment is including some nice features and will likely update when I feel the added features will justify the cost.

I do agree Timfonie that Steinberg will do fine financially due to the numbers of folks that support the new strategy.

I think my problem with the strategy is more due to the stoppage of support (bug fixes) in a previous version. I also think the marketing strategy is a slap in the face to those that buy a version and then find out if they want fixes they have to pay for them.

I do understand it costs money in salaries to fix things but I don't understand why a product is released with known errors to begin with. I feel if you are doing a job and getting paid then it has to be right to start with.

I'm sure though the coders are just doing what they are told and it's the executives making the decision to release inferior product.

IMO the ONLY way to stop this is to stop supporting it and thus enabling this to take place.

JM2C

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[chk071]

Just... why?

Economical, it usually works like this: You sell well, you raise the price. You don't sell well, you lower the price. So the simple answer would be: Because they can.

[Compyfox]

Of course they can do that, chk071. But my counter argument is still, that there are other developers existing on the market, that ask for way less. Maybe even ask for "one payment" and then you get a lifetime upgrade possibility without extra fees. Only if you want the extra VSTi. These companies are also no small fries and are still going strong.

Why has it to be different for the big 3?


I think dsan summed it up perfectly:

I think my problem with the strategy is more due to the stoppage of support (bug fixes) in a previous version. I also think the marketing strategy is a slap in the face to those that buy a version and then find out if they want fixes they have to pay for them.

I do understand it costs money in salaries to fix things but I don't understand why a product is released with known errors to begin with. I feel if you are doing a job and getting paid then it has to be right to start with.

That(!) is a huge issue!

Cubase 7, one of Steinberg's flag ship, was a huge faux pas and is still considered as such. The reputation hit rock bottom for a lot of users. Half of the userbase even switched back to C6.5 - especially on elder rigs - due to the ASIO engine issues (unless you update your hardware and pray!). The same happened with Logic 10 users btw. And please let me not get started on the 3-4 month delayed demo version.

Wavelab on the other hand, has currently one(!) major issue - and that is the "VST3 Audio Forward Bug" that is now known to be happening with Klanghelm, Slate Digital/Eiosis (since 2012 and WL7!) and Izotope (if I read that right a minute ago). Granted, WL still has it's hoops to jump through... but it is a big(!) difference compared to Cubendo.



Now if Steinberg would pick up the idea, to release a "stipped down" version of Cubase and ask for less money. But this is sadly highly unlikely.

[chk071]

Of course they can do that, chk071. But my counter argument is still, that there are other developers existing on the market, that ask for way less. Maybe even ask for "one payment" and then you get a lifetime upgrade possibility without extra fees. Only if you want the extra VSTi. These companies are also no small fries and are still going strong.

Why has it to be different for the big 3?

I don't know, but i'm probably thinking differently too. I'm not deciding whether i buy or not buy a product based on my point of view about a companies ethics (what is that even? Shouldn't a company care for their employees, thus care for itself the most? Isn't that ethical?), because it is something which would not bother me when i use the software. What is important for me, is, that the software is stable, support as many plugins as possible, and is easy to use. I also care for what is the industry standard, because that's most probably which is the best in terms of compaitility. And when i need support, which is extremely rarely the case, i want the company to be responsive. And that's about what i expect from the product then. And if it is too expensive, i simply don't buy it. Which is the most deciding thing also whether a company is successive or not. In the end, they have to sell. I don't get how people can shell out money for a product, or a company, with which they are not satisfied. That seems very counterproductive, for you.

[Compyfox]

There is no real alternative to Wavelab these days. It's still a leading light on the CD authoring market. But WL turned into so much more. Especially an analysis tool and encoder - at a fraction of the price for the tools individually.

Which is why I might go for the paid update this time around. Even though I really don't like the new route - but I just hope that I'll be save for at least one version in terms of upgrades. And I hope the upgrade cycle won't slim down to 2 years but rather stays with 3-4 years.


Cubase on the other hand is a different issue. Here, I could go to the competition. But... as you pointed out... it's still fairly easy to use, it supports as many plugins as possible (VST technology). Only that C7 was a really messed up release, which could have developed at least for another year. And the bad press regarding price changes, disregarding of existing bugs and what not... really didn't help on the long run.


Would I switch? If I find a host that suits my needs, or in this particular example offers me as much as Wavelab does - maybe. Until then, I stick with the devil.

And at least of of this fraction seem to know what he's doing.

[MaF]

I think my problem with the strategy is more due to the stoppage of support (bug fixes) in a previous version. I also think the marketing strategy is a slap in the face to those that buy a version and then find out if they want fixes they have to pay for them.

I do understand it costs money in salaries to fix things but I don't understand why a product is released with known errors to begin with. I feel if you are doing a job and getting paid then it has to be right to start with.

That's the reason why I am still on 6.0 and I see no urge to pay 450 € to update to 8.0 someday. I became much more of a Live/Bitwig fan in the past, so for me there are also workflow related reasons involved.

[Tronam]

That's the reason why I am still on 6.0 and I see no urge to pay 450 € to update to 8.0 someday. I became much more of a Live/Bitwig fan in the past, so for me there are also workflow related reasons involved.

Yeah, Steinberg definitely has the steepest upgrade pricing policies in this industry for current or returning customers, even with their essentially bulletproof copy protection system. It'd cost me $400 to update. I could easily get a much better deal than that on eBay.

[thebutler]

That's the reason why I am still on 6.0 and I see no urge to pay 450 € to update to 8.0 someday.

I just looked on the SB site shop; update from WL6.0 to 8.0 is listed as £162.00GBP (193 euro). Maybe I don't understand your full situation; have you already had an official quote from some retailer/individual for 450 euro to update..?

Without knowing all the facts, I would strongly suggest this is just plain wrong.