FM synth with VA operators?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
1843 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:13 am

This might be a crazy idea, but does anyone know if there is a synth which can do FM synthesis, using oscillators that are a little more virtual analog instead of pure digital?

What I'm looking for is something that can do pretty extensive and flexible FM synthesis, but possessing some natural sounding imperfections
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KVRAF
6143 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:41 am

Yeah, I've often thought that using other types of oscillators in FM synthesis would be more interesting than just sine waves... A hybrid would be neat. Few synths have tried it.
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KVRAF
12513 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:00 am

Tone 2 Nemesis offers real FM (with the "Neo FM modes) instead of the phase modulation of most other FM synths (including DX7).
You could load and save custom waveforms and there is a simple additive (16 partials) waveform editor.

Many VA synths like e.g. Tone 2 Elctra 2, Synthmaster, Diversion, Largo etc. offer FM between oscillators too.
all of those could use complex waveforms or could even load custom waveforms.

Not sure if this is what you are searching...

Jace-BeOS wrote:Yeah, I've often thought that using other types of oscillators in FM synthesis would be more interesting than just sine waves... A hybrid would be neat. Few synths have tried it.
Ni FM8 offers sevral differnt waveforms besides just a Sine. Ableton Operator has a built-in additive like waveform editor.Tone 2 Nemeis could use any waveform including custom ones and has a simple additive like waveform editor.

Many FM synths offer more than a Sine and also some analog synths includin the good old Minimoog are able to do FM (or "crossmodulation")
Last edited by Ingonator on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
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KVRAF
21524 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:01 am

Sytrus can do it.

KVRAF
8953 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:06 am

I love Poly-Ana for this kind of thing personally. Also there's DCAM Synth Squad's Cypher and U-he ACE. Or even the ARP 2600 emulations like Arturia's or the Timewarp one.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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KVRAF
6504 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:08 am

I would imagine that Reaktor could do it.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

1843 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:11 am

I'm looking forward to trying Sytrus when its ready for the mac. So many people love the way it sounds.

I'm not personally looking to frequency modulate complex waveforms. Generally that is going to be difficult to get musical sounding tones I think. Some people have talked about using filters on the operators in order to filter out some of the weirdness that can happen from operators being slightly out of tune with each other, especially as you move up and down the keyboard or try to play musical lines.

yet, combining perfectly pure sine waves together is somehow TOO perfect, if you know what I mean. FM is extremely powerful, particularly for growl sounds, etc. Just trying to to find a way to goose a little more warmth out of it.
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KVRAF
12513 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:22 am

Dewdman42 wrote: I'm not personally looking to frequency modulate complex waveforms. Generally that is going to be difficult to get musical sounding tones I think. Some people have talked about using filters on the operators in order to filter out some of the weirdness that can happen from operators being slightly out of tune with each other, especially as you move up and down the keyboard or try to play musical lines.
Most FM synths are using phase modulation instead which indeed des not work properly with complex waveforms. Tone 2 Nemeis with the Neo FM modes offers real Fm which works with any waveform.
Eacch operator has a filter (not exactly a typical analog filter) to "smoothen" the waveform if necessary.
Besides "real" FM there are several other synthesis modes to combine the ipaertaors like e.g. phase modulation (like in the DX7), a formant mode, wavetable (= wave morph) or phase distortion. Some of the FM modes include additional harmonics like a second oscillator or a Sub-Osc.


Using FM in analog emulation like e.g. TimewARP 2600 as others mentioned could lead to nice results too.


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KVRAF
25857 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:28 am

Bazille would be an obvious candidate.

Grab it now during the pre-sale, you'll easily get your money back later if you want to sell it second-hand.

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KVRAF
12513 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:32 am

Numanoid wrote:Bazille would be an obvious candidate.

Grab it now during the pre-sale, you'll easily get your money back later if you want to sell it second-hand.
Bazille seem to be interesting indeed. Currently testing the public beta myself. Anyway i think that Nemesis, FM8 and Bazille are diifferent enough for using all three of them (at least for me).
Ingo Weidner
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Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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KVRAF
18703 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:33 am

Bazille is a versatile FM synth... you can easily explore what you are looking for and beyond... the sound quality is very high... and the filters! :love:

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KVRAF
25857 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:34 am

Ingonator wrote:Anyway i think that Nemesis, FM8 and Bazille are diifferent enough for using all three of them (at least for me).
Yeah, think so too, FM8 for the more "tradtional" DX approach, Bazille for the modular approach, and Nemesis for NeoFM synthesis

KVRAF

Topic Starter

1843 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:37 am

what is NeoFM?
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KVRAF
25857 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:40 am

Dewdman42 wrote:what is NeoFM?
Ingo, do you know what the Tone2 concept is?

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KVRAF
18703 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:49 am

Ingonator wrote:Anyway i think that Nemesis, FM8 and Bazille are diifferent enough for using all three of them (at least for me).
Yeah, all 3 are quite different...

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