Need help trying to work with a singer overseas - contract / law questions kind of urgent...

[rentboyrenton]

Hi,

i am musician trying to work out the contractual details with a singer/vocalist in the united states (i myself am located in germany) and communication is happening solely over the internet - obviously only the vocal parts will be provided by the vocalist and will be payed for by me, i will need all the rights so i can sell the song without getting sued later on

are there any resources / templates on how to write up a contract covering such a "overseas" deal ?

how would this work out if the vocalist wants a percentage of all the earnings of the song and how would i go about correctly proving to said person the earnings info when they are coming from all kinds of different sources like spotify, youtube, itunes etc... ?

i am kinda lost on where to even begin so any help will be greatly appreciated

[thecontrolcentre]

Contact a lawyer and get a contract drawn up.

[rentboyrenton]

Contact a lawyer and get a contract drawn up.

the consultation with a lawyer alone will cost me 200+ $ - i don't even want to know how much drafting up such a contract will cost me - add the vocalist cost and some other unmentioned fees - i just can't pay a lot of money "upfront" in my current situation nor do i even know if i will ever get a penny out of this song

i just need to cover my bases without trying to scam the vocalist out of any money she deserves

[vurt]

if youre not willing or able to pay a lawyer
then make your propsals to the vocalist and see what they say to a one off payment, if they agree write out a short paragraph explaining that for this one song you will pay them a one off fee.
it really doesnt have to be complicated, get them to print and sign it as well as replying via email accepting the proposal.
keep a copy of the email and the paper version in your files.

[Aloysius]

Choose a different singer, from a site that specialises in providing session musicians, with proper contracts. I came across such a website by accident once but don't currently have the exact details. Should be easy enough to Google.

[rentboyrenton]

if youre not willing or able to pay a lawyer
then make your propsals to the vocalist and see what they say to a one off payment, if they agree write out a short paragraph explaining that for this one song you will pay them a one off fee.
it really doesnt have to be complicated, get them to print and sign it as well as replying via email accepting the proposal.
keep a copy of the email and the paper version in your files.

i would ask the person to actually sign the contract and scan & send it back to me, a one off payment wouldn't be overly complicated - even though i have no idea how the validity of the contract would hold up in court if it ever came to that

i don't believe this will happen, still i was wondering about it

my issue is with royalties, i have no idea how that would work and was hoping maybe someone here who made a similar deal could shed some light on it

Choose a different singer, from a site that specialises in providing session musicians, with proper contracts. I came across such a website by accident once but don't currently have the exact details. Should be easy enough to Google.

could you mean AirGigs.com ?

does anybody have any experience with that platform ?

sadly the person i want to work with is not on that site but if i have to make some compromises then so be it as the site has some talented vocalists from a quick browse

[thecontrolcentre]

my issue is with royalties, i have no idea how that would work and was hoping maybe someone here who made a similar deal could shed some light on it.

If you give the singer a writing credit, then the royalties would be split between both of you, and could be collected by the singer via MCPS or their publisher. This obviously doesn't help with any earnings you collect personally. Without a legally binding contract some trust is required.

Is the singer writing lyrics or melody, or simply singing what you wrote?

[rentboyrenton]

my issue is with royalties, i have no idea how that would work and was hoping maybe someone here who made a similar deal could shed some light on it.

If you give the singer a writing credit, then the royalties would be split between both of you, and could be collected by the singer via MCPS or their publisher. This obviously doesn't help with any earnings you collect personally. Without a legally binding contract some trust is required.

Is the singer writing lyrics or melody, or simply singing what you wrote?

the person would be singing what i wrote

also the singer has no publisher / is not signed to any music label (that would actually make it easier)

[Hink]

Contact a lawyer and get a contract drawn up.

the consultation with a lawyer alone will cost me 200+ $ - i don't even want to know how much drafting up such a contract will cost me - add the vocalist cost and some other unmentioned fees - i just can't pay a lot of money "upfront" in my current situation nor do i even know if i will ever get a penny out of this song

i just need to cover my bases without trying to scam the vocalist out of any money she deserves

okay, first 200 dollars? I have blown that many times over on software I ended up never using (and I bet I am not alone). Second there are online lawyer sites that offer advice for a small fee and even contracts you can download. I would suggest doing a little more homework besides asking here, I have seen these type threads (legal questions) go on for pages with a lot of different opinions from a lot of wannabe lawyers while the original question goes unanswered.

[deastman]

If you aren't willing/able to use a lawyer, your just going to have to work it out between the two of you. If you are the one collecting royalties, you need to keep accurate records of what you receive and from where. Also keep records of royalties that you pay out. Get everything in writing and get it signed. Just talk it over and come up with an agreement that seems fair to both of you.

[Frantz]

You can use this Word document: Session Musician / Vocalist Release Contract

Just be sure to change the names.

[rentboyrenton]

Contact a lawyer and get a contract drawn up.

the consultation with a lawyer alone will cost me 200+ $ - i don't even want to know how much drafting up such a contract will cost me - add the vocalist cost and some other unmentioned fees - i just can't pay a lot of money "upfront" in my current situation nor do i even know if i will ever get a penny out of this song

i just need to cover my bases without trying to scam the vocalist out of any money she deserves

okay, first 200 dollars? I have blown that many times over on software I ended up never using (and I bet I am not alone). Second there are online lawyer sites that offer advice for a small fee and even contracts you can download. I would suggest doing a little more homework besides asking here, I have seen these type threads (legal questions) go on for pages with a lot of different opinions from a lot of wannabe lawyers while the original question goes unanswered.

i have had quite a few consultations with crappy lawyers who were not able to tell me much more than i knew already before, so yes i would like to avoid it as much as possible in the future

you might be able to wipe your a** with 200 $ but to me that is money i could use for something better than just a consultation that may lead to nothing again, i certainly have not wasted 200 $ on software i don't use, maybe next time don't believe the hype and only buy what you can try beforehand ?


thanks for everybody for their help so far, i'll probably end up choosing a session musician if the singer i am interested in has some unreasonable demands

You can use this Word document: Session Musician / Vocalist Release Contract

Just be sure to change the names.

Frantz to the rescue! this is what i was kind of looking for

as a non native English speaker, who doesn't know much about american law and the correct wording of such a contract, this at least gives me a good idea

thanks man! if you had such a contract with royalties and its means of delivery that could be agreed on i would be set for both situations

[jancivil]

A singer asserting rights just to a track s/he sang on is a bit .
They aren't going to have a leg to stand on litigating it with no more than their presence on the resulting track, are they?
But I agree with vurt, apprise them clearly that you are the sole holder of rights and document that. Unless you're super-paranoid about this, spending money to consult with an attorney does not appear to be particularly wise use of money or energy.

[Hink]

Contact a lawyer and get a contract drawn up.

the consultation with a lawyer alone will cost me 200+ $ - i don't even want to know how much drafting up such a contract will cost me - add the vocalist cost and some other unmentioned fees - i just can't pay a lot of money "upfront" in my current situation nor do i even know if i will ever get a penny out of this song

i just need to cover my bases without trying to scam the vocalist out of any money she deserves

okay, first 200 dollars? I have blown that many times over on software I ended up never using (and I bet I am not alone). Second there are online lawyer sites that offer advice for a small fee and even contracts you can download. I would suggest doing a little more homework besides asking here, I have seen these type threads (legal questions) go on for pages with a lot of different opinions from a lot of wannabe lawyers while the original question goes unanswered.

i have had quite a few consultations with crappy lawyers who were not able to tell me much more than i knew already before, so yes i would like to avoid it as much as possible in the future

you might be able to wipe your a** with 200 $ but to me that is money i could use for something better than just a consultation that may lead to nothing again, i certainly have not wasted 200 $ on software i don't use, maybe next time don't believe the hype and only buy what you can try beforehand ?


thanks for everybody for their help so far, i'll probably end up choosing a session musician if the singer i am interested in has some unreasonable demands

You can use this Word document: Session Musician / Vocalist Release Contract

Just be sure to change the names.

Frantz to the rescue! this is what i was kind of looking for

as a non native English speaker, who doesn't know much about american law and the correct wording of such a contract, this at least gives me a good idea

thanks man! if you had such a contract with royalties and its means of delivery that could be agreed on i would be set for both situations

dont put words in my mouth, I was offering you advice you were seeking...just because you do not like my answer does not mean you should put words in mouth. I never said that I could wipe my ass with 200 dollars nor did I ever say I have a lot of money...I do not and indeed 200 dollars is a lot of money. My wife at an injury at work almost three years, workman's comp settled with here for pretty much nothing and I am disabled...my disability goes to supporting my family (in fact in 2014 I did not spend anything on music gear at all). I also have a 19 year old daughter about to graduate high school this year and class ring, yearbook, senior trip are all expensive and I haven't even started with how I am going to put her through college. So no I cannot wipe my ass with 200 dollars, but I can manage what little money I have to take care of the things I need and want in life.

If you dont like the answer when you ask for advice that isn't my problem and I take exception to your comment. But congrats you just proved 100% why you should not seek legal advice here, I'm sorry I even bothered. If you get bad advice it's no one's fault but your own.

Good for you though getting someone else to do the work for you, I gave you the same advice as another but you were too lazy to even google it. Maybe that lack of initiative is why you cant afford a lawyer See yah

[rentboyrenton]

Contact a lawyer and get a contract drawn up.

the consultation with a lawyer alone will cost me 200+ $ - i don't even want to know how much drafting up such a contract will cost me - add the vocalist cost and some other unmentioned fees - i just can't pay a lot of money "upfront" in my current situation nor do i even know if i will ever get a penny out of this song

i just need to cover my bases without trying to scam the vocalist out of any money she deserves

okay, first 200 dollars? I have blown that many times over on software I ended up never using (and I bet I am not alone). Second there are online lawyer sites that offer advice for a small fee and even contracts you can download. I would suggest doing a little more homework besides asking here, I have seen these type threads (legal questions) go on for pages with a lot of different opinions from a lot of wannabe lawyers while the original question goes unanswered.

i have had quite a few consultations with crappy lawyers who were not able to tell me much more than i knew already before, so yes i would like to avoid it as much as possible in the future

you might be able to wipe your a** with 200 $ but to me that is money i could use for something better than just a consultation that may lead to nothing again, i certainly have not wasted 200 $ on software i don't use, maybe next time don't believe the hype and only buy what you can try beforehand ?


thanks for everybody for their help so far, i'll probably end up choosing a session musician if the singer i am interested in has some unreasonable demands

You can use this Word document: Session Musician / Vocalist Release Contract

Just be sure to change the names.

Frantz to the rescue! this is what i was kind of looking for

as a non native English speaker, who doesn't know much about american law and the correct wording of such a contract, this at least gives me a good idea

thanks man! if you had such a contract with royalties and its means of delivery that could be agreed on i would be set for both situations

dont put words in my mouth, I was offering you advice you were seeking...just because you do not like my answer does not mean you should put words in mouth. I never said that I could wipe my ass with 200 dollars nor did I ever say I have a lot of money...I do not and indeed 200 dollars is a lot of money. My wife at an injury at work almost three years, workman's comp settled with here for pretty much nothing and I am disabled...my disability goes to supporting my family (in fact in 2014 I did not spend anything on music gear at all). I also have a 19 year old daughter about to graduate high school this year and class ring, yearbook, senior trip are all expensive and I haven't even started with how I am going to put her through college. So no I cannot wipe my ass with 200 dollars, but I can manage what little money I have to take care of the things I need and want in life.

If you dont like the answer when you ask for advice that isn't my problem and I take exception to your comment. But congrats you just proved 100% why you should not seek legal advice here, I'm sorry I even bothered. If you get bad advice it's no one's fault but your own.

Good for you though getting someone else to do the work for you, I gave you the same advice as another but you were too lazy to even google it. Maybe that lack of initiative is why you cant afford a lawyer See yah

look, i can't help it if you write in a condescending way

you might mean well but with your last paragraph you sure don't sound like it...

while i can afford more than one consultation with a lawyer atm doesn't mean it makes sense for my situation, having a disability doesn't get you a free pass to mock people who can't do so though

your advice in your first post could've been summed up as "google it"
while all the other people here took time out of their day to share their actually useful knowledge with me which i am very grateful for, so thanks again to them

i don't enjoy internet drama so this will be my last response on the matter