KVR MIX CHALLENGE - MC13 August 2015 - Winners announced

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
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Compyfox wrote:Question time...
Clarity in the rhythm guitars might mean less bass and a slight bump somewhere in the 8-20khz range, and I don't think your reverb was the problem (at least not to my ears). I know these songs weren't all mastered, but I find in my own work, when the overall bass output of all the instruments is too high, it blows out all the other instruments in the mix. Now this is something that is more common/likely to be noticed in the mastering process, but for instance when I start adding compression, the compressors choke our hard on all the extra bass, and the song loses some character. That may or may not apply here, but worth a mention. To be honest, I was listening to all these mixes on my JBL LSR305 monitors, then again on AudioTechnica ATH-M40X headphones, and as they don't have that V shaped EQ boost like your average consumer headphones and speakers, that probably is part of why I heard less treble than I might have otherwise. I imagine had I played this back on my Klipsch system in the living room, might have been a different story...

I thought the drums could come up a bit, as there were a few spots where I could barely hear the snare hits. While they shouldn't be too loud, I really loved the SNAP of Kolyev's mix. Something more along those lines might have helped, so not necessarily a loudness increase, but some tweaks to EQ, transients, compression, etc. could potentially help on the drums side, particularly on the snare hits. I almost always use some tape saturation on my mixes these days on the snare for some extra bite.

On the lead guitar front, I thought your guitars there were good, and you corrected any complaint I had previously. Much better than your first mix and I actually had no issues with them on this final mix. My suggestions this time around were purely for the rhythm guitars.

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Thanks for clarification, AudioSupernova.
I just revisited my mix, and I now know what is going. Addressed this already even.

I just did the following changes:
- raise the kick drum's compressor output (therefore making it a tad louder)
- raise the kick drum's high frequency for a "more click" sound and dialed back in some low mids (therefore fitting in a bit better with the overall mix)
- change the snare attack on the compressor (which results in a higher signal output, therefore being louder in the mix, while having less squashed transients - remember, I did use a transient designer to raise the snare bottom sound a bit), adding a tape effect to just the snare also added a different "drive" in general
- adding/removing the subtle delay and the reverb on the RhyGt's didn't change anything. I actually also played around with the LC to see if things improve. But I think the only way things might improve, if I add another low mid band cut, which in turn kills the (to me desired) low end of these tracks.
- I raised the LF EQ on the bass by another 1dB, sounding way more smooth and not thin now (especially on moderate/good headphones)

The biggest change on my end, which seems to have had the most(!) impact, actually was with the solo guitar.

I created a clone of my main reverb FX channel (which is also used on the guitar), copied the reverb I used on the guitar over to this new channel, then narrowed the stereo spread by 50%. I then A/B'd the AUX FX with each other and opted for the more narrow reverb. Suddenly, the track is way more focused, and less diffusion in the low frequency ranges - even more so if I cut away <80Hz of the Delay FX channel (which I only used for the solo and wah wah guitar anyway). So it was(!) in part down to the reverb and slightly too strong delay on the solo guitar.


I think I'll be able to release a "v3" version of my mix tomorrow, after I listened to it with fresh ears again. Just for the fun of it. It still might not be "the" version you look for. Also more fine tuning, especially during he very busy sections, would mean automation of the EQ. And I actually hate doing that.

But... the challenge is all about finding an own style while still producing a mix that is enjoyable to the client. And you enjoy it otherwise, so... :tu:



audiosupernova wrote:There's a possibility it was due to some witchcraft in FL Studio (my DAW), but I'm really not sure.
Maybe not only check in FL if you rendered in 16bit by accident, but also if FL renders with a meta tag for WAV files, writing down the BPM values of your track.

This was the main issue of the misalignment. In Cubase, half of the tracks showed as 98.928 (or something) bpm, while some were 100bpm, and some even 101bpm. Thankfully, in Cubase it is but one button to press (turn off musical mode), and all the time stretching is a non-issue. Then set up the signature to 4/4, the quantization to 1/8 or 1/16, and tracks could be easily aligned.
Last edited by Compyfox on Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Congrats to the winners, well done.

Every contest I learn something ^^

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Good to hear that the learning factor is still present.

I hope to see you back for MC14 as well. :tu:
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ah, ok. next time do an exorcism before exporting.

:lol:

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Again - this is to be expected in a real life scenario as well. You will(!) get clients that render the craziest things. And you have to work with it if there is no other solution.
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thank god I am a bedroom producer n00b with a job and don't need to deal with such things ;)

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I'm sorry that you think that way.
But this actually is what AE's have to deal with daily. So it was good to cover this during the curse of a challenge as well. It may happen again in the future (actually, it did somewhat happen before in one of the <MC05 challenges IIRC).


Speaking of "additional challenges":
I'm thinking about this for a while now... but we're getting a lot of mixes that are longer than 4 minutes. My idea is to maybe implement an additional bonus challenge in a future MC, where people need to create radio mixes with a length of 3:20min max on additional to the regular mix.

Feedback on this would be welcome.


Oh and... the questions from page 6 are also still valid.
The more feedback on the challenge (in general), the more likely we can improve on things.
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it wasn't meant rude. sry. I just meant I am in a happy position to mix only my stuff ... :P

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This was my first mixing contest entry so can't really say how difficult is was compared to normal. But I didn't think it was too difficult. I loaded the original mix in a separate track and played it back with the stems to get everything aligned. There were some key spots that made it obvious when something was out of alignment. The dynamic variation on the guitar signals proved more troublesome for me.

I'd be fine with future contests having alignment / volume / noise issues, in addition to the artist just wanting a better/different mix. Also, a radio mix would be cool.

The prizes are ok, nothing I felt I really needed. I did this more for practice and experience, it was fun, and I feel like I learned a few things so I'll continue to participate in the future as I have time.

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Thanks for the feedback so far, polygonsheep. Definitely appreciated.

You're not forced to pick up anything. So whatever route you go, we're fine with that.



Personally, I am just as stuffed with tools. Though I am currently looking at one tool out of the pool, but I'm undecided. Will probably know for sure within the next 48hrs.
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@Kolyev - Please PM me your prize selection. It's first come first serve, hence I am waiting on you. It's perfectly fine if you don't want anything and skip this time. Either way please let me know.
satYatunes - Sound and Graphic Designer
Beautiful UI and skins for VST plugins.
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Compyfox wrote: the curse of a challenge
is it that bad already :D
Compyfox wrote:Was the challenge too hard?
Or rather, are the challenges (in general) too hard?
I personally don't think they are too hard. It's a challenge after all. I actually like having to deal with such different issues as noisefloor, misaligned tracks etc. This helps to expand my knowledge and is thus a good thing as I may have to deal with such issues in other projects in the future as well (e.g. maybe I'll work with a vocalist and get far from ideal recordings).
I also like the diversity of the material that you provide, as it requires a different approach every month.

However, I do think this challenge was a rather difficult one, compared to the last two challenges at least and that may (or may not) have turned people off. The last two challenges provided projects that basically needed polishing. This one required the whole "sound design" for the guitars, which obviously causes a lot more work and I spend way more time on this mix than I have on the last ones. (And I also think mixing metal is a beast of its own. But that's a different story) But as a consequence I feel that I have learned a lot in this challenge and it especially trained my listening skills.

Training my ears and experimenting with different mixing techniques is why I started taking part in these challenges in the first place as I felt that my own productions suffered from my lack of mixing experience. And I can easily say that my own songs already improved through this additional experience. :tu:

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A little update and "final treat" from my side...

I worked on my mix on and off for another 2 hours in the last couple of days and I'm now at a point where I'm happy with it. Read: it's could be released as is.

I did change some reverb work on the solo guitar (it's the same reverb, just on a new AUX and the stereo field being narrowed in half, which cleaned the mix up a lot!), I added some parallel EQ to the synth bass, changed the attack of the snare compression a bit (which automatically made it louder), and added some further slight tweaks here and there (like raising the volume of the solo guitar, minor drum set balancing).


For simplicity's sake, I only uploaded the MP3 this time around. And you'll notice that both the 1 extra bar at the beginning was trimmed to 150ms, and the reverb trail at the end of the song being properly cut and faded out.

Elsewhere (Studio Compyfox) - Release canidate, non-mastered 44/24 as source, MP3 320kbit VBR, ca 11,3MB



How would this one sound after mastering?
Here are two examples.

Example 1 is in -16LUFS SLk (or K-16v2), which is currently a wide-spread goal for "Mastered for iTunes" and also "Youtube". Though they're still not sure if these settings should rather go for -14LUFS SLk or not. Example 2 is a -12LUFS SLk render (K-12v2).

The settings are the same for both: some M/S stereo field enhancement, some subtle M/S EQ, compression (1dB GR!), Loudness raise (compressor output gain), Brickwall Limiter set up to -1dBTB (which doesn't even respond in K-16v2, but merely "clips off" the transients by 2,5dB in K-12v2). Nothing fancy - some might call it "fairy dust".

Here are both examples:

Elsewhere (Studio Compyfox) - Release, mastered K-16v2 44/16, MP3 320kbit VBR, ca 11,7MB
Elsewhere (Studio Compyfox) - Release, mastered K-12v2 44/16, MP3 320kbit VBR, ca 12,0MB


Please enjoy, and... feedback welcome.




@Kolyev:
Did you get in touch with Satya regarding your won license?
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Yes, I went with Acon Digital Verberate.

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