Firm kicks (punchy, outstanding in the mix)

[makiro]

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Hello, I am new here so please don't bash me for stupid question.
I use Cubase 8.

Is this:
http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... csx-177988 (http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/steinberg-mr816-csx-177988)
or this:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UAD2Duo (https://sweetwater.sjv.io/c/4241666/789347/11319?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sweetwater.com%2Fstore%2Fdetail%2FUAD2Duo)

a game changer or is it just a relief of CPU and native plugins can do as much? Yeah. I saw threads where everybody points out that it is just the matter of algorithms.

I am asking because in the first link at the bottom there is a sound sample and the kicks there sound really good and punchy (pro, firm or outstanding in the mix - I don't actually know how to call it).

I argue with my friend about it and he tells me that these are just really good drum samples and that he can achieve same effect with iZotope plugins.
I am not convinced though, because I heard a lot of expensive (EWQL Pro Drummer etc.) and free samples libs and there always is a lack of such punch (pro quality - if you wish) of kicks and whole drum set.
Additionally I heard a lot of my friends stuff and I clearly see the difference.

[Deep Purple]

I argue with my friend about it and he tells me that these are just really good drum samples and that he can achieve same effect with iZotope plugins.
I am not convinced though, because I heard a lot of expensive (EWQL Pro Drummer etc.) and free samples libs and there always is a lack of such punch (pro quality - if you wish) of kicks and whole drum set.
Additionally I heard a lot of my friends stuff and I clearly see the difference.

He's both right and wrong - the tools will help you, but you have to know how to use them in the first place. If you don't know how to mix well enough, you'll never get it exactly right. Also, the final sound on a track is the result of two separate processes - mixing and then mastering. Both can bring out something like a kick drum so that it's up front and center.

As for what you have not had success with, it's not necessarily going to be the source, as how you mix it is going to determine how well it stands out.

Basically, you need to find a place in the mix for it by making a space with EQ, and maybe sidechain it with other instruments that sit in a similar frequency space (such as bass). Don't apply huge amounts of compression to anything, and DEFINITELY don't put a compressor or limiter on the master bus.

Once you have a good mix, then you master it. Multiband compression, more EQing, etc. will get you there, but if your mix isn't good, then you'll struggle with this.

I would start with trying to get good at mixing first, and producing something that is ready for mastering. Mastering is probably harder to learn, but if you get into the frame of mind that you are working towards two separate processes, it will be easier to get to that.

Plenty of other threads on here about tips on mixing and mastering, so just do a search, or look on other sites for something similar.

[makiro]

Thanks a lot. This is a great answer and first one so precise on the topic. I'll definitely try this.
Are there for example any worth reading books on both topics you can recommend, or will it be better to work with the forum? I am asking because I guess a road map can be clearer when using books than randomly going through forum posts.

[simon.a.billington]

You'll often get contrasting answers on which is better, even to the point of people arguing rather stupidly amoungst each other.

There are some that will swear by using one particular class of plugins, someone will swear by another, then someone else will chime in with a third option. Some of them even go as far to call other solutions crap and not worth the money or something very biased like that.

Truth be told, you can accomplish very good results with almost anything out there, even using the DAW's plugins.

I tend to think the question people should be asking themselves is which one is better, but which one will suit me and what I do better?? Is the price right, does it have the right set of features, will it be stable enough on my DAW, how biased are people's advice??...etc...