Linux support?

[ras.s]

Hello,

do you have plans for supporting native Linux versions of your plugins? Your website says flat out that there's no support.

Is there a particular reason for that -- and do you think it will stay that way?


In defense of the platform, I would like to point out that there's plenty of both commercial and free audio software available already, both hosts and VST plugins. It's no longer an argument that there isn't anything to run plugins on or along with.

And another thing is that the platform may start looking more intriguing from the user's point-of-view as Microsoft develops Windows as it has done recently. 2020 will mark the end of support for Windows 7 and I for one don't want to switch to a platform that forces system upgrades on the user, possibly even making some hardware obsolete in the process (as is the case with Windows 10 right now).


Linux is a decent platform already for making music and you being the king of reverbs, you could just come in and claim new territory. Probably not an easy task, but perhaps worth the effort.


Thanks for reading.

[ras.s]

I take it's a no then? No plans, no interest?

[valhallasound]

It's a no. No plans. Not "no interest." More "no Linux skills."

I've worked with Linux before, in the past. Can't say that I understand it as an OS. I don't know my way around it. Unfortunately, I'd have to know my way around it to a pretty good extent to port the plugins there: how to compile things, how to create installers, how to work with the DAWs, all that stuff.

I only have a finite amount of time during the day to work on plugins and such. This forces me to say no to a bunch of projects, and Linux ports fall into this category. This isn't any sort of judgement about Linux as a platform, just a purely practical decision about what I would be successful in pulling off.

Sean Costello

[ras.s]

Thanks for the explanation, perfectly understandable.


As I understand, KVR user abique had a role in helping U-he sort out some/most of that stuff. If you find yourself one day thinking Linux support might be worth the effort, do consider consulting him or some of the other small companies that already have it covered about how they do it (Loomer, DiscoDSP, OvertoneDSP).

[caulixtla]

Poking around, people have had success running the Valhalla plugins in Linux using DSSI-VST.

While a native plugin would be better, I think DSSI-VST is a reasonable solution — especially since there is a very prominent outspoken “how dare you try and make money writing software” contingent in the Linux community, which is reflected in a lot of libraries which do not have a stable ABI (application binary interface), making ports of compiled plugins potentially unstable.

Considering the headaches Sean had getting his plugins working as AAX plugins, I can see why he doesn’t even want to think about making native Linux ports.

[drakmaniso]

especially since there is a very prominent outspoken “how dare you try and make money writing software” contingent in the Linux community

I'm not so sure about that. Several indie game developers/publishers (such as Humble Bundle) have the reported that, in average, linux users were the most generous in "pay what you want" sales. Their cumulated sales contributed similar amount than mac users, despite being far fewer.

which is reflected in a lot of libraries which do not have a stable ABI (application binary interface), making ports of compiled plugins potentially unstable.

This is a different problem: backward compatibility is rarely prioritized in the linux ecosystem. This is not a conspiracy against paid software, but the scars from the early windows and intel eras, which were plagued by really bad decisions based on "compatibility at all cost" mentality (compatibility is important, but for the end user; it should not be implemented at the system level).

But this ABI fluctuations is not a real problem for application developpers, the middleware usually absorbs most of it, and what remains is not very different (nor more frequent) from the problems seen on mac or windows when they jump version.

Considering the headaches Sean had getting his plugins working as AAX plugins, I can see why he doesn’t even want to think about making native Linux ports.

Yes, unfortunately, supporting another platform, especially one unfamiliar, can lead to a lot of work. Another problem is that, last time I checked, the state of audio middleware on linux was not really brilliant. I'm not sure if Valhalla plugins use an audio framework?

Anyway, although I would love to have linux support, I'd rather see a new plugin!

[caulixtla]

especially since there is a very prominent outspoken “how dare you try and make money writing software” contingent in the Linux community

I'm not so sure about that. Several indie game developers/publishers (such as Humble Bundle) have the reported that, in average, linux users were the most generous in "pay what you want" sales. Their cumulated sales contributed similar amount than mac users, despite being far fewer.

Here are a couple of examples of the hostility I have seen the Linux community have towards commercial software:

• Exhibit one (mirror) “OpenOffice.org is under the LGPL. SoftMaker use their own proprietary file format too? LOL!” “Why would I even consider paying €70 for a proprietary office suite that is inferior to the free and open source alternatives?”
• Exhibit two (mirror) “Lee Vermeulen, the Nexuiz project founder, decided to license the [open source game] Nexuiz code (with LordHavoc licensing the Darkplaces engine) to a new game development company named Illfonic so that they could develop a closed-source version for the PS3 [...] When this was announced, the response from the Nexuiz community was overwhelming negative”
• Exhibit three (Mirror) “Linux game company Loki Entertainment Software is closing its doors at the end of the month after three years of support from Geeks, critical buzz, but unsustainable sales levels.” (While not hostility per se, this is an example of a company unable to pay their bills catering to only the Linux market)

I think the best thing Linux users can do here is post a step by step HOWTO on how to get all of the Valhalla plugins to run in Linux using DSSI-VST.

[psycha0s]

Here is the solution to run Valhalla plugins using the wine bridge. There are pre-built binaries also available for Ubuntu and Arch: https://github.com/phantom-code/airwave/releases
I have reports that Valahalla Room works perfectly with airwave and Bitwig Studio.

According to the native Linux versions: if Sean has an interest I think that abique, me, or someone else could help to create a Linux port even without access to the source code. It's possible to create a VST-project and implement minimal UI backend (depending to the needs of the existing code). We can help and we want to help, so just ask.

[Kavokei]

I appreciate that this post is quite old now, but this isn't a dead issue as far as I'm concerned.

The following is my position, but talking to other Linux audio users, I'm not entirely alone. I'm trying to avoid paying for plugins that I can't use on Linux. I've bought Bitwig Studio, Mixbus 32C, most of U-He's range and a few others. I'd be more than happy to buy the full Valhalla range (I've used them in studios and love what they can do), but I'm not going to 'invest' until there's a Linux port on the horizon. If there was a crowdsource initiative to port these plugins, however, you could have my $250 right now. I'm in no doubt whatsoever that a number of my fellow linux audio users would be happy to do the same.

since there is a very prominent outspoken “how dare you try and make money writing software” contingent in the Linux community

This does seem to be changing, slowly but surely. Certainly from a user perspective, the majority now seems to be more pragmatic than dogmatic. More people seem to be moving to Linux for audio due to the stability and performance benefits rather than for ideological reasons, judging by what I read. Of course, that means nothing if the people coding the libraries that audio depends on still fall into the dogmatic camp, but as I say, that seems to be changing from what I've seen. Fingers crossed...