KVR Audio

DamienStaab · Post by **DamienStaab** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:48 am

Is seems to me that is very loud even for pop record. -3.2 RMS on loudness part, when I'm listenting side channel it has distortion especially in chorus. Track sounds very good ok maybe little bit overcompressed when chorus kicks in. I think main struggle was to keep that great lo-end and to be loud. I listened FLAC version.

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:12 am

DamienStaab wrote:Is seems to me that is very loud even for pop record. -3.2 RMS on loudness part, when I'm listenting side channel it has distortion especially in chorus. Track sounds very good ok maybe little bit overcompressed when chorus kicks in. I think main struggle was to keep that great lo-end and to be loud. I listened FLAC version.

That sounds strange, are you sure you read the metering correctly? - haven't heard the FLAC version of this song, therefore cant say anything about it. Its produced by Greg Kurstin - I like Greg Wells production but don't know much about Kurstin and his productions. Although this is mastering issue, the producer has his say. They have different mastering versions for diffrent purposes, but - 3.2 LUFS (RMS) is out of any standard.

kelvyn · Post by **kelvyn** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:48 am

Greg Kurstin is a great composer/producer and among a host of other great artists has worked with Lilly Allen, Ellie Goulding, Sia, Kylie Minogue and is a member of 'The Bird and the Bee. He mixes electronic music with different elements and I would say his sound is a little less organic than somebody like Greg Wells.
I don't know about the loudness but I find the production of Adele's 'Hello' a little strange. When the chorus kicks in the vocal gets very small - less open - and squashed, it's been compressed to the point that the vocal doesn't sound like the vocals in the rest of the song. I can only imagine they tracked in different sections and lost sight of the overall picture and continuity. I read somewhere that she found the chorus vocal quite difficult to sing. It sounds a lot better live as she sings it all in one go as does Sam Smiths 'Writings on the wall' which kinda sucks on the recording.

DamienStaab · Post by **DamienStaab** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:47 pm

Yeah it's probably due to the mastering but here is what izotope insight says:

integrated loudness (LUFS) on chorus -5.0db

short-term (LUFS) vary from 5.1 to 7.6 db

momentary max (LUFS) 3.0db on second chorus

loudness range 1.9db on loudest parts

are those safe numbers for this types of songs?
I like reverbs on vocals but dynamics in chorus does not sound very pleasant, also lo-end on drums is very nice.

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:31 pm

DamienStaab wrote:Yeah it's probably due to the mastering but here is what izotope insight says:

integrated loudness (LUFS) on chorus -5.0db

short-term (LUFS) vary from 5.1 to 7.6 db

momentary max (LUFS) 3.0db on second chorus

loudness range 1.9db on loudest parts

are those safe numbers for this types of songs?
I like reverbs on vocals but dynamics in chorus does not sound very pleasant, also lo-end on drums is very nice.

Those figures are high. Integrated (total average) loudness is the most used reference. Nowdays -11 db is rather typical when mastering, of course depending on the engineer and the genre.
The -23 LUFS is recommendation in EBU R128, i.e. European standard for the radio playing. This means that the radio stations (should) 'normalize' all music according to this. (I've red that many stations use -16 LUFS in practice). If I rember correctly, the same standard in the USA is -24 LUFS.

DamienStaab · Post by **DamienStaab** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:23 pm

here is nice review by my favourite Fab Dupont. http://www.puremix.net/mixcheck-mix-ana ... adele.html

NystagmusE · Post by **NystagmusE** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:30 am

It's possibly louder on average because the drums are aesthetically designed to be slightly muted and background instead of foreground. If you listen carefully you can hear that they are low pass filtered amongst other processing. Without all those drum transients, the vocals can be a lot louder. In general, everything in the music composition of that tune is supporting the vocals. All of the instruments except for the voice take a backseat. It just works out because of how the tune was made. It's rather clever if you think about it. That technique wouldn't work for every tune.

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:17 am

To me the muted drums are a big miss in the production. For my ears this destroys the otherways balanced and impressive arrangement. As the article suggests, drums are not just low-passed by the Eq but run trough a filter type of Filterfreak. Too much this filter. My guess is that this is the main reason that the general volume level can be that high, cutting the drum mid-high/high transients makes that posible. This, how it sounds, is of course matter of taste.

NystagmusE · Post by **NystagmusE** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:10 am

Yeah Harrry, you and I pretty much agree. I do think that the lack of drums doesn't destroy the tune though. Adele is a top pop vocalist. She's not so much famous for arrangements, she's famous for her voice. This could be a career mistake, but that's just how these things go. It's also why people like me don't listen to alot of music by such celebrities. I go for instrumental music, typically without vocals. Most mainstream pop music is all about the vocals to the detriment of everything else. I wouldn't blame Adele or her engineers for that, blame the entire genre and those who promote it. You are right about the drums though, it's a subjective matter. Personally, I think it works for that particular tune. I'm not trying to hear the drums through the mix, I'm hearing the whole tune on it's own. Fussing over RMS measurements is ridiculous. A tune is a tune and it's a hit so that's all that really matters.

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:27 am

Probably mixed to suit typical heavy radio compression

HcDoom · Post by **HcDoom** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:59 pm

Those LP filtered drums are terrible at the end...I believe, opened up drums, filter wise, would have even bigger impact...but apparently, Adele wont be in 1st plan than. So, they had to adapt song to her wishes...

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:00 pm

it's just played way too often

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:36 pm

Suloo wrote:it's just played way too often

I've managed to avoid it so far

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:52 pm

Intresting addition to the information (although an ad) of this thread was posted today, I include the same link, too.

Now we have exact information by which plugings and DAW the producer has "destroyed" the track.

E.g. "Filtered the drums with the Logic AutoFilter. SPL Transient Designer to shorten the length and add attack on those drums. And there’s a little bit of Sylenth1 playing a sine-wave, organ-like pad under the chorus.”

https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/in-acti ... tin-adele/

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:42 am

Harry_HH wrote:the muted drums

the music was thud-like

Adele - Hello is it too loud?