Linnstrument and hardware synths

[kimmolainen]

Hi! I am new to the forum as well as the Linnstrument. Would love to hear more about hardware synths, as my iPad seems to be struggling to handle the data from the Linnstrument and I am a bit reluctant to buy a new one instead of getting a hardware synth like the Prophet 12.

[48cube]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I've tried the LS with several various HW synths. In general the newer synths are handling the big MIDI data stream fine. I've played Kurzweil PC3K, no problem with multi-channel setups, full MPE experience, no hick-ups. Same with older E-MU CS XL-7. But they are both polyphonic and multi-timbral beasts with big MIDI buffers (just assuming here).
On the other hand I managed to choke the old Yamaha TQ5 with all MPE parameters on (no wonder, it's the box from 80ies). But it's possible to reduce the MIDI CC's amount by disabling i.e. Y and/or Z axis data. Also the reduction of channels used by the split to say 4 can help in situations like this. TQ5 is capable of 8 voice polyphony across 8 multi-timbral MIDI channels. I've set the LS split to send MPE data on 8 channels only (2-9), then set the same voice on all 8 TQ5's channels responding on respective MIDI channels (2-9), set the Pitch Bend range to the same value on both, LS and TQ8 (12 semitones). Then I mapped the pressure to MIDI CC2 which controls the tone brightness on TQ8, leaving out the Y axis on LS completely. Then I could play even the old HW in MPE mode without any problems.

So the short answer could be that you can optimize the MIDI output of LS by disabling certain parameters or MIDI channels and yet you should be able to use the MPE potential of LS if your HW is multi-timbral. And even if you just play monophonically, with Pitch Bend under your finger and maybe After Touch on pressure, it's already more expressive then traditional keyboard.

[kimmolainen]

Thank you!

My iPad (4/retina) chokes up quite often. I suspect an iPad pro would solve that problem, but I would still have to fight the lack of connections etc, and it is far from cheap. Makes a hardware synth quite tempting. Anyone here tried the Prophet 12 with the LS? I can get a good deal on a module right now.

[gbevin]

Thank you!

My iPad (4/retina) chokes up quite often. I suspect an iPad pro would solve that problem, but I would still have to fight the lack of connections etc, and it is far from cheap. Makes a hardware synth quite tempting. Anyone here tried the Prophet 12 with the LS? I can get a good deal on a module right now.

I'm curious, do you run LinnStrument in low-power mode when your iPad chokes on the MIDI that's sent?

[kimmolainen]

Yes. It works alright playing one synth at the time, but I wanted to play it in split mode using two synths simultaneously, and that proved to be too much for it. I will try again with the LS powered.

[illintechnology]

While the Prophet 12 is a great synth, it won't be able to take advantage of some of the Linnstrument's great features.

One of the best features of the Linnstrument is the channel-per-note operation. This means that each touch is broadcasted on its own MIDI channel and can have completely different control of pitch (X-axis), pressure and Y-axis. With the Prophet 12 in multi-mode, you'd have a maximum of two fingers with full Pitch/Pressure/Y-axis control when Multi-Mode is enabled.

With Channel-Per-Note and Multi-Mode turned off the Linnstrument will behave more like a standard MIDI controller.

The only Dave Smith synth that has greater than bi-timbrality is the Tetra, which has quad-timbrality (4 independent touches). I use a Tetra with a Linnstrument, and it is pretty good, but the hassle of setting up a voice, then assigning those voices to a combo is a bit of a burden.

I'm greatly looking forward to a new generation of hardware synthesizers with proper channel-per-note/MPE integration.

If you're looking to use the Linnstrument as your main MIDI controller, I would recommend holding off on getting the Prophet 12 unless the limitations don't bother you. I wish I had done similar research before buying my Prophet 08 and then "downgrading" to the Tetra after I learned the hard way.

[kimmolainen]

Thank you, most useful informantion.

[Roger_Linn]

Hi! I am new to the forum as well as the Linnstrument. Would love to hear more about hardware synths, as my iPad seems to be struggling to handle the data from the Linnstrument and I am a bit reluctant to buy a new one instead of getting a hardware synth like the Prophet 12.

There's a helpful FAQ on our FAQ page about ways to reduce LinnStrument's MIDI data density. Search the page for "stuck notes".

[PaulSchilling]

With Channel-Per-Note and Multi-Mode turned off the Linnstrument will behave more like a standard MIDI controller.

I disagree with this statement. To get my feet wet I have been using the Linnstrument with two hardware synths that I have used a lot, the Prophet 6 and Arturia Origin,both of which respond to most MIDI messages including polyphonic aftertouch, but not channel-per-note (and I haven't tried multi-mode with Origin/Linnstrument combo).

I was skeptical and cautiously optimistic before the Linnstrument arrived, but within 30 minutes of plugging it in I was absolutely blown away with what Roger Linn & Co. have accomplished. With the exception of EWI's and the more recent Continuum, Roli, etc. I have played pretty much every MIDI controller under the sun for the last 30 years, and none of them hold a candle to Linnstrument as far as expressiveness goes. This is just an initial demo I put together within the first week with a Prophet 6 mono patch I created specifically for Linnstrument. I am currently focusing on expressiveness of solo lines with analog hardware synths. https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/l ... ntprophet6

All tremolo/vibrato is coming from z/x finger movements

Linnstrument is nothing like any standard MIDI controller, unless you turn off aftertouch and pitch bend CC (and I don't even know whether that is an option)

[PaulSchilling]

I want to add that I'm very excited to explore the MPE territory with Linnstrument, there are some incredible demos already out there, but it seems to me that using the Linnstrument as an expressive controller for all manner of existing hardware and software synths that don't support MPE or multi-mode, is a subject that hasn't been explored quite as much.

[Roger_Linn]

Thanks for the kind words, Paul. LinnStrument's one-channel mode pulls off some neat tricks internally to make the most of MIDI's limitation of bend and CCs always applying to all notes on the channel. First, single lines always get the full 3 dimensions of expression, including smooth pitch slides. And if you vibrato a chord, LinnStrument averages the X-axis movement of all notes so it sounds natural. You can also vibrato a melody note while also holding a chord, though it will vibrato the chord as well. If you attempt a pitch slide on one note while holding one or more other notes, LinnStrument automatically converts the slide to semitones steps so as to not affect the pitch of the other held notes. Or if you split the keyboard into two one-channel zones, you can perform 3D expression with smooth pitch slides in the right hand while holding chords in the left.

[kimmolainen]

Roger, I have looked thorugh the FAQ and found it most helpful. Still, it seems that running a synth and my recording app at the same time is too much too handle for the iPad. I guess I need to get a new one, or use it as a recording device only.

The full expressiveness of the Linnstrument is kind of hard to handle for a beginner (I have tried it with the Roli Noise app) leading me to think that a hardware synth might be great for building tracks even if it does not utilize all the possibiliteis of LS. Then I could get some skill practicing with Noise.

[PHY6]

With Channel-Per-Note and Multi-Mode turned off the Linnstrument will behave more like a standard MIDI controller.

I disagree with this statement. To get my feet wet I have been using the Linnstrument with two hardware synths that I have used a lot, the Prophet 6 and Arturia Origin,both of which respond to most MIDI messages including polyphonic aftertouch, but not channel-per-note (and I haven't tried multi-mode with Origin/Linnstrument combo).

I was skeptical and cautiously optimistic before the Linnstrument arrived, but within 30 minutes of plugging it in I was absolutely blown away with what Roger Linn & Co. have accomplished. With the exception of EWI's and the more recent Continuum, Roli, etc. I have played pretty much every MIDI controller under the sun for the last 30 years, and none of them hold a candle to Linnstrument as far as expressiveness goes. This is just an initial demo I put together within the first week with a Prophet 6 mono patch I created specifically for Linnstrument. I am currently focusing on expressiveness of solo lines with analog hardware synths. https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/l ... ntprophet6

All tremolo/vibrato is coming from z/x finger movements

Linnstrument is nothing like any standard MIDI controller, unless you turn off aftertouch and pitch bend CC (and I don't even know whether that is an option)

Nice job with that audio example.
I don't own a Linnstrument yet. But did some things with Geo synth and my 4 part Nord G2. 4 channels can already do great results.
But to come to my point.
I can hear in your playing that there's some unintentional vibratos. But maybe I'm wrong ?
Controling the y axis when playing chords is really tough on Geosynth.
Now, in another app, Geo Shred, it's possible to set the response of the y axis with a graph/curve...what makes things far easier to control.
That, and the possibility to set it on relative, like rounding the notes on the x-axis.
Dunno if that's possible to alter in your case.

[PaulSchilling]

I can hear in your playing that there's some unintentional vibratos. But maybe I'm wrong ?

It's all intentional, I was just trying to be extra-expressive. I would say it's more of a tremolo. I was varying the speed of finger up/down vibration at different parts and also included a bit of x-axis vibration.

From what I gather (and feel when playing), Roger and Geert have put tons of thought and engineering into the LS firmware so that it responds as a natural instrument. There is lots of code in the LS executing at lightning speed as you're playing, interpreting what you are doing with your fingers, and smoothing out the stream of CC data so there is no jerkiness. There are so many combinations of touches that have to be handled, it's really stunning how the LS handles everything. It kind of elevates MIDI to an artform..

My guess is that if the firmware simply passed along whatever the sensors received from the fingers, the end result would be quite jerky and un-musical.

[spunkytoofers]

Circuit MPE Voice sm.jpg

a question was asked from the LinnStrument Firmware Public Beta : v1.2.5-beta1 thread:

Don't want to go too much into OT but I have to ask. How is the Novation Circuit with Linnstrument?

the two synths in circuit feels tightly integrated in what the circuit does. i don't use it with linnstrument at this moment but i'm sure ideas of how to use them together will happen. circuit has a deep modulation matrix and some triggering options.it receives both 6 voice synths on channel 1 and 2. since the channel range is limited it would limit you to a 2 voice expressive synth between both onboard synths. there are 2 scenarios that i could think of with linnstrument:

1. one poly aftertouch 6 voice synth where you could do some expressive voicing but you may want to deactivate pitch bends or bend only when one held note at a time.

2. a mono expressive synth voice. this might be interesting to select pattern playback order on circuit and to assign an alt split to linnstrument when you want to setup parts of a circuit song to solo over.